Controversial The IMDF Conflict Zone!

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
This episode was a big game of hide and seek. I'm surprised Catweazle at times wouldn't show his face and say to everybody "peekaboo" and then go back into hiding. Well, I admit I would've loved this episode, not in 1971 because I was 8 and had already outgrown hide-and-seek, but I certainly would've enjoyed it four or five years earlier. Do kids still play hide and seek? We did a lot back in the day.

Carrot treats Catweazle like a child, and the fact he bathes the old man shows how little concerned he is. It's like bathing your mentally-challenged uncle, more annoying and depressing than comedic. The fact Carrot treats Catweazle like he's talking to a younger kid is a bit humiliating for this old gentleman, and I wish they would stop showing that.

To add insult to injury, Catweazle seems to have the behavior of a wild animal or a feral cat. He even draws a circle on the floor to feel protected, and if you know anything about cats, you may know that some cats like to be trapped in the "stupid circle," that is, the drawing of a circle on the floor that makes them believe it's an actual physical barrier. And Catweazle shows other behaviors you']d expect from a pet: he hates water and bathing like an old dog you found in the streets, his clothes stink (and if you ask me I'd say we've seen too much of his scrawny old body half naked), and when he looks for places to live, he does no better than a raccoon hiding under your floor, over your ceiling or in an abandoned water tank. That is because his idea of hygiene is non-existing.

But in reality, Catweazle is the only one who understand what's going on. He knows there's magic everywhere and the people he finds are not prepared to deal with it. Let's hope his frog familiar helps his take control of this world, because that's what it needs.

Oh, and about the sound track. Lots and lots of passages with flutes, oboes and other woodwind instruments. This cue used to indicate the scene was playful and you were supposed to find it heartwarming and funny. The problem is that the show overdoes it right from the opening credits, which is filled with such sound bits that belong more to a cartoon. Oh, well, the opening is a cartoon, so that figures. But the soundtrack should emphasize the scene not hit on your head with how the writers think you should react to it.

Catweazle's man-child behavior is getting old rather quickly. I wonder what Catweazle is going to get spooked by next. A blender? a lawn mower? Oh, I know! A cucumber on the floor. That always scares the hell out of cats.

Episode 2 gets 4 hiding places that must reek of feces and small dead animals, so thank God film doesn't transmit smells.
 
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Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
OK, I know I've been suggested to use the existing episode thread, but let me make my case for a specific thread for this specific use.

  1. It marks the official moment the Sages get to this point in the show.
  2. It promotes the discussion of this specific episode, not others.
  3. It discourages people from posting things ahead of time so all Sages have the same common experience.
  4. Each viewing experience is unique, so even if you have already seen the show, you're encouraged to write a new review, this time having the Sages in mind and your reactions you have right now in your current mood, and considering who your readers will be this time, who won't be the same of your old reviews.
  5. It starts with a brief synopsis of the story, just enough to suggest what's going on and raise the curiosity of the viewrs without giving away many key plot points or spoilers.
  6. It marks the fact it's Friday and Friday is the day of the week the Sages watch their old shows (even if they don't actually do that all the time in practical terms).
  7. It shows how the entire group is reacting to the show as it develops. If some people are still watching episode 2, while others are talking about ep 23, then we'll never get that feeling.
  8. It's the way it's always been done and Sages are usually old, like the titular character, and all about traditions.
  9. We get new, fresh reviews made especially for us right now. It's the same as having a tailor-made suit comparing to buying one in a discount store made following general patterns and which never really fits.
  10. The interactions we'll have as a result of the most updated reviews still freshly made will be part of our exchange experience.
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
Accidentally, I couldn’t get my speakers to work, so I watched the opening credits in mute mode. Oh, I missed that quirky theme and all cartoon bells and whistles they add to the intro. I guess I’ll be watching the intro in mute more often.

Are we honestly supposed to believe Mr. Bennet didn’t see the huge tortoise on Carrot’s lap, and that Carrot didn’t count on the possibility his father would remove the bag from the table and see his pet? I found that scene a bit ridiculous because when I eat with my parents and I try to feed the dog with food scraps from my plate my mother always sees it and complains, no matter how discreet I try to be. It felt like a forced way to introduce the idea Carrot has a familiar.

So, there’s still hope for Carrot. He’s beginning to realize magic is real and is facing the subject quite naturally, which just proves that magic is not a strange concept in this alternate reality.

Another clunky television moment of yesteryear’s shows: a character’s inner monologue is actually quite an outer monologue. Carrot, when researching about curses, enunciates each thought he has and when asks his tortoise what it thinks, he asks the question loud and clear to make sure the audience hears. It’s interesting to observe quality TV shows don’t use this artificial gimmick anymore.

Then the scene shifts to Catweazle and he’s also making a long speech to himself. OK, I guess I should just ignore that because it’s much likely be pretty much like this until the last episode, with characters loudly talking to themselves.

Catweazle has a magic book, which shows he’s no novice in terms of magic. But then shouldn’t Catweazle have been able to light up the kerosene lamp by flipping a latch? After all, magic should be able to accomplish something that simple. I mean, that should be easier to do than, say vanquish an ancient curse.

Catweazle and carrot visit a museum and the wizard goes because he wants to see old books. But in his case, these are books from the future, and pretty much everything in the museum is in his future. It’s the same as if we went to the year 3000 and got a hold of “ancient” books from 2300, 2561, 2829, etc… These would be far advanced books beyond our comprehension.

Do all libraries in England have centuries’ old books lying around on their bookshelves? I’m guessing in Britain news about the Industrial Revolution are classified as “current events.”

The interesting thing is that Catweazle even knows how to read. Considering the Guttenberg Bible, the first major book printed using mass-produced movable metal type in Europe, was printed in the 1450s, it’s extremely unlikely a peasant like Catweazle who only had shabby filthy rags to wear would not be illiterate like most of the population at the time.

Stupid Catweazle moments which show Catweazle has serious mental problems:

- Catweazle thinks a road sign painted SLOW is some sort of magic command and cars are some sort of wild boars. Ha, ha. That’s stupid.

- Catweazle and a kid stick out their tongue at each other, so we don’t forget this is a kids’ show. I bet kids had a good laugh at this scene back in 1950, I mean, 1970.

- Catweazle sees a deer head on the wall and hisses at it. Then, bewildered, tries to look around the wall to see where the rest of the animal is. OK, really? They didn’t hunt back in 1066? Hunters didn’t display animal heads back then? What could possibly explain Catweazle find that thing so strange. This is another example of the writers implying Catweazle has the intelligence of a cat. When my cat sees something interesting, like another cat, on my monitor, he looks behind it to find the rest of the cat.

- Catweazle can’t tell the difference between a mannequin and a human being. Probably in 1066 he thought statues were people as well, and people called him stupid even then.

- Catweazle has the habit of walking on four legs like an animal because yes, if you walk on four legs that will fool a frog… Sure…

- Catweazle is afraid of a statue.

- All in all, Catweazle looks and smells like a hobo and, well, he is one. He also looks like a person with mental problems and, considering his odd behavior, that’s more than just looks.

- Catweazle’s notions of hygiene haven’t changed. Castle Saburac is still filthy.

- Catweazle thinks a clock cuckoo is a real bird. Well, considering this ancient relic is from 1820, that’s the same if we came across a gadget from 2880! Still, he looks stupid by thinking a mechanical bird is real.

- Catweazle thinks there may be demons in the chimney. Are you going to tell me there weren’t chimneys back in 1066? Oh, well, I give up really!

- Hey, look, Catweazle found a way to get even filthier.

- Catweazle is afraid of going up, then he’s afraid of going down and yet he does all these things. His pretend cowardice is getting annoying.

Smart Catweazle moments:

- Catweazle learns all people are magicians, which they are, even if they don’t understand the magic they are using. But then you and I don’t really understand computers and we use them all the same.

- Catweazle knows the difference between a frog and a toad (even if he has difficulty telling mannequins from people).

- Catweazle shows incredible intuition and keep observation powers, which enable him to solve the family’s 800 quid problem. Whether it was a curse or not we don’t know, but when it comes to relics and lore, Catweazle is an expert and a genius.

Stupid Carrot moments:

- Carrot lets go of the lever while is moving towards the bottom of the well. This stupid moment wins the stupid trophy of the week.

- Then he does it again and doesn’t even realize he could’ve sent that old man to the hospital or the morgue. The Three Stooges did it better.

One thing I learned with Catweazle:

- The word ‘slow” has been written the same way for a thousand years and even a man from that era would be able to recognize it even today.

Grade:

After watching this episode, I don’t know if Catweazle is an idiot or a sage. And I feel, the writers had no idea either showing him, at times, like a superstitious fool with no ability to perceive the most elementary things in real life and, at other times, a wise old man in possession of countless secrets. This doubt could make a good story if both directions didn’t contradict one another so often. Due to the episode’s several inconsistencies, it gets 4 dusty old books.
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
Guys, are you going to stay here? You questioned if I would stay in this group, but what's the point if we're not even using the same thread, let alone interacting in discussions? Shouldn't you be posting on the Sages' thread? Or is it going to be a thing between you two only?
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
So, you've already covered all episodes? How many have you reviewed? And do you intend to post on these preexisting threads and not the supposedly official ones for the Sages? Then is there even a point for still posting a "This Friday on Catweazle" weekly thread anymore?
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
Another charming episode again. And once again that two layered approach of "is it magic?" or "is it coincidence?" which I really like.
Love this episode, lots to enjoy.
Of course, of course, you guys love everything about Catweazle and I'm absolutely certain you'll be loving it all the way to the final episode.

So you guys are already discussing episode 4, even though this is Week 3 of the Sages reviewing Catweazle? At this point I'm totally lost about how this is supposed to work. All episodes already presented, making our weekly thread useless. You guys jumping ahead and having these parallel exchanges before everybody even get to watch the episode. I'm at a loss.

If that was your plan, why did you two make such a big deal and attacked me for opening a "Welcome to Paradox" board when that had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with Catweazle in any shape or form?

And why was I verbally attacked for looking for at least one show I would enjoy and Michael said it was "VERY, VERY LIKELY" I would leave the Catweazle board when it seems you two apparently had long decided to abandon the group format and have these private discussions just because you two are unquestionably fans of the show?

Please, let me know how this is going to work, because apparently now this is a group, or an assortment of individuals, coordinated by Doctor Omega. So, please, @Doctor Omega I would appreciate if you let us know your guidelines and how you intend to run things..
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
Yes, I thought Sallis was excellent, as always. One of the great things about shows like this were the very familiar faces that would suddenly pop up during an episode.
So the extra in the museum has a name, huh? Who the heck is Peter Sallis and why is he "familiar" and "excellent as always"? The extra seemed pretty nondescript to me and I'd have to watch the scene again to remember what he even looked like.
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
Don't be put off by the fact that this is a children's or youth aimed series. It's fantastic , beautifully written and acted, with some dramatic tearful moments. Available on youtube.
So you have presented and summarized all episodes already and it has passed the fan reviewer's test, being classified as "fantastic, beautifully written and acted." It seems you're done with the show.

Wow, these 26 weeks went by pretty fast. That's great! Then can we move on to the next show and start presenting nominations next week? I'm ready to move forward!
 

michaellevenson

Moderator
Staff member
So, you've already covered all episodes? How many have you reviewed? And do you intend to post on these preexisting threads and not the supposedly official ones for the Sages? Then is there even a point for still posting a "This Friday on Catweazle" weekly thread anymore?
You're obviously concerned about these threads , so I'll try to explain.
A year ago Doc started putting these type of threads on IMDF,starting with Blakes7, and then followed it up with Star Cops, since then he's been beavering away at other shows too. It's phenomenal what he's done. There's Moonbase3 , Catweazle of course, Sapphire and Steel, Children of the Stones, almost all of Classic Who, that's 26 seasons. The idea is to give IMDF its own identity and more user friendly.
So anyone, not just members but guests too can go straight to a show Doc has covered and post about a particular episode. So you see it's not a slight against you or The Sages but providing a service for this forum. Hope that clears that up.
Second question; why are Doc and me using these and not your threads for Catweazle ?
We actually have different reasons. Doc simply wants to watch the show at his own pace, he HAS NOT seen it before. Me and Ant Mac are the long standing fans, not Doc. I've noticed Doc is still posting on Sages CW thread too, replying to whomever he wishes. My situation is a bit different. This forum is something I enjoy being a part of ,and have no wish to be reported and thrown off it for posting something I might regret. So for safety sake I'll stay here and like Doc pop over to your threads to respond to any review or comments I like, and am confident I won't lose my rag.
As our views on CW are diametrically opposed, and as you said yourself some time ago, it won't be some time until we're comfortable in each others presence, even on line, best if we avoid direct confrontation. But both Doc and myself hope the Sages CW project succeeds and we'll be dipping into it from time to time.
BTW, we certainly haven't done the whole series, I'm up to ep4 and Doc I think is at ep8.
I see the welcome to paradox thing is up and running, so all is okay. Lets chill.
:emoji_grinning:
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
@michaellevenson wrote: The idea is to give IMDF its own identity and more user friendly.
So anyone, not just members but guests too can go straight to a show Doc has covered and post about a particular episode. So you see it's not a slight against you or The Sages but providing a service for this forum. Hope that clears that up.
Oh, it does. And I hope to clear up a few things with you. First, I never thought these old threads were a slight against me or the Sages, since they were preexisting. It's OK to have preexisting content in the forums we visit; this has already happen many time. But unfortunately this new system which apparently has been implanted without any consultation or vote and represent a huge departure from the way the Sages were working, which, again, caught me by surprise because nobody voted for this; the system simply was implemented by higher powers. This, in turn, will make it very hard for this iteration of the Sages to work as a group if some people can be in the beginning of season one, while others making comments on episode 15 and others, how the show ended.

The original idea was to simulate a group of friends who would meet for an evening watching a show everybody liked and have a good time, something very different from what is happening. We would move from one episode to another together, and discover things together. And in the process, interacting about our first impressions, as a team. And those who had seen the show would mentor the beginners.

If there seems to be a preference for the preexisting threads and in no particular order, then these "This Friday on Catweazle" threads have become redundant and should perhaps be discontinued and we should all go look for the places where relevant exchanges are happening.

Anyway, I tried to reply to your statement in the original thread, but apparently I don't have enough privileges to reply there, so now besides having different threads that scatter the group all over the place, these some people are privileged enough to use them, while others have to be content with the ones they are allowed to use. This is getting weirdly dystopian by the minute.

As our views on CW are diametrically opposed, and as you said yourself some time ago, it won't be some time until we're comfortable in each others presence, even on line, best if we avoid direct confrontation. But both Doc and myself hope the Sages CW project succeeds and we'll be dipping into it from time to time.
Personally I have nothing but respect for you, since our differences are limited to things concerning a very silly TV show not worth losing sleep over. It's some of the thins you did I have reservations about. Confrontation is part of exchanging ideas with people we don't agree with and that possibility is always present when we interact with strangers. It's impossible for us to live in a bubble in our comfort zone and only deal with people who have the exact opinion we do.

What are your plans? Have fan talks in threads where unprivileged people you want to avoid can be blocked and occasionally drop by the official Sages threads? It would be interesting to know because I'm really starting to think repeated threads are a waste and if Doctor Omega's threads are not going, these here have no more reason to exist, in my opinion.
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
I will post these links on each Friday posting, so as to currently avoid merging, which will only push Mad-Pac's post down and lose the focus of the Friday thing, but also allows others to proceed at their own pace, using the existent threads, should they wish to.
Well, I thought about that and I'm beginning to realize my threads are not required if there are others in existence and being used by the same people already. So, don't worry about merging, because soon there won't be what to merge and working only with your thread will simplify things considerably. The purpose of my initial post was to introduce the show, but in the present context that makes no sense.

I just wish this new system had been presented to the group by someone, then discussed when we would argue pros and cons and then voted to see how we would want the Sages to get in touch with the show. And least back in the day when the sages were in a happier place, major changes like this were discussed and voted in order to avoid authoritarian decisions and unilateral changes.
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
I suspect you may well be correct, Mad-Pac, but that is our right as reviewers,

Just as it is your right to dislike or even hate the show - as it is the equally valid viewpoint of a fellow reviewer.
OK, thanks for informing which rights we have. I just wish these rights had been presented, discussed and democratically voted, otherwise that feels like an authoritarian change in our procedures.

And yes, sure I do have the right to hate the show and I'm using it fully. But what concerns me is that you don't seem to realize that having to recognize the existence of such right is a big part of the problem. Imagine, for a moment, you and some friends are deciding which movie to watch tonight at the mall. There are five of you. You and your two closest friends are dead set to watch "A Mixed Bag Adventure" and go buy five tickets. However, John and Jack have objections.

John says he doesn't want to see the movie because he promised to watch it next week with his girlfriend. He asks the group to choose something else.

Jack says he hates anything Pat Wilson, the actor, makes. He has no sense of humor and the writing in his movies is borderline offensive. There's no way he's going to watch "A Mixed Bag Adventure". To be fair, you address the group:

"Tough break for you, guys. We've voted and the majority wins. It's unfortunately you choose not to watch this movie, John, and that you hate the actor, Jack. But a vote is a vote. so you either go home or bite the bullet and stay. But hey, I have good news. You have the right to bitch about the movie all night and as much as you like!"

Personally the end I would choose for this story is the friends would check other movies available because how can we enjoy a movie if some of our friends are having a terrible time? So, the group would choose something which perhaps is not something the first three guys would love to death, but at least nobody would be hating the experience.

Those are my two cents.
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
It all seems to me somewhat dramatic in what is supposed to be,
OK, this is the second time you call me dramatic. Please stop. Perhaps you are oblivious to the situation, but not everybody has stern and collected British upbringing and so they display emotions in a more enthusiastic way than it may make a Vulcan uncomfortable. You and I are from different cultures and it should have become evident by now that we disagree whether reactions are being "dramatic" or "normal". I hope that clears things up.

our seeming need to run the show reviews in such a regimental way, with a seeming air of "Don't you dare review episode 3 when we are supposed to be on episode 2!" could,in my opinion, potentially suck the fun out of the whole enterprise.
That's where you don't understand. This is not MY need to be regimental. That's the way the Sages were working when you guys (which doesn't include me) arrived in our group. I understand you might disagree with the procedures we had had in place for years and want to change everything. But for this we would have appreciated the courtesy of having discussed each other's reasons and voted on the best way to procede, instead of having a unilateral change imposed on us just because you think that the way we've been doing things for years would suck your fun.

You have all the right to form a group in which anything goes, there are no procedures in place and people comment on the episode the heck they prefer, Or open a book club in which the participants each one reads a different book because you don't like "regimental fun."

What I don't get is why you guys had to commandeer an already existing group for this. And TWICE! We were the the Sages of the Single Season. Then the Blake's 7 fans joined and bam! It's now a Blake's 7 group probably going all the way the next five seasons of Blake's 7.

Then I opened another board, which time with a short-lived series in other to preserve what had been lost: the single season initiative. I honestly didn't think the members of "Blakes Sages" would even be interested in our little alternate forum, but, well, they were. And now our procedures don't fit the new format anymore and we didn't even have a chance to vote for that.

And that's how my "ill-suited" Paradox forum came to be. We'll be watching and commenting on the same episode each week, unless the members prefer that I upload all episodes at once and in this case I'll do it. But not without discussing and voting the problem democratically.

And I hope "Paradox" is the last board I have to create to preserve the original concept of the Sages of the Single Season that has served us so well for so many years and that we brought here to IMDF.
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
But I can't merge the threads without pushing your above opening post down; something that you were unhappy with and which I have tried to avoid with said compromise.
Yeah, I was unhappy, but I thought better and now I am not as invested. So I think just your thread will do and there's no need for another. You did a nice work with great dedication so it's done.
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
I hope that you stay and continue to do your Friday posts and in depth reviews and join in with some of that banter and off-topic wanderings! I can continue to post that compromise link and we can be just random people having friendly chat about shows!
Again I never suggested I would stop posting my Friday reviews. But since this is no longer the thing we were doing I can loosen up and make use of the flexibility you implemented. Surely I'll keep on participating, reviewing, bantering and annoying you to no end. And besides I have the Welcome to Paradox board to preserve the original format of the Sages, so I'll satisfy my regimental urges over there. See you in the boards.
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
I temporarily and instinctively locked it, as it seemed there was a danger of brush fires starting in various threads without any resolution, but added a diversionary link to where the discussion could stay focused and where any disagreements could hopefully resolve themselves.
OK, I'm sorry for having jumped to conclusions. The thing is that IMDF lists members in classes or casts, so I assumed some had privileges others didn't. All members being equal, but some being more equal than others. I'm glad that's not the case.
 
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