Controversial The IMDF Conflict Zone!

ant-mac

Member: Rank 9
Don't tempt me. Mr Squiggle is a classic that'd happily re-watch. :emoji_grinning:

Fortunately for all of us Skippy is a multi-season show so it's outside the criteria.
So is MR SQUIGGLE...

Although why anyone would want to watch an episode that doesn't feature Miss Jane is beyond me... :emoji_confused:

 

Gavin

Member: Rank 6
VIP
I thought it was the ATO's fault...

The bastards! :emoji_angry:
I know right. Imagine expecting someone earning as much as him to pay tax. What were they thinking? Everyone in Australia knows that taxes are only for the middle class.
 

ant-mac

Member: Rank 9
I know right. Imagine expecting someone earning as much as him to pay tax. What were they thinking? Everyone in Australia knows that taxes are only for the middle class.
I thought that was America?

I thought here in the land of Oz, it was only the poor who paid tax?
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
Aired Unknown Feb 15, 1970 on ITV

Catweazle is an 11th century magician who, when trying to flee his enemies, casts a spell to make himself fly. However, something goes wrong because the spell transports him to the 20th century instead.





CAST

Geoffrey Bayldon ... Catweazle
Robin Davies ... Carrot
Charles 'Bud' Tingwell ... Mr. Bennet
Neil McCarthy ... Sam Woodyard
Derek Baker ... Norman Soldier (uncredited)
Steve Emerson ... Norman Soldier (uncredited)
Dave Griffiths ... Norman Officer (uncredited)
Frank Henson ... Norman Soldier (uncredited)
Terence Mountain ... Norman Soldier (uncredited)
Chris Webb ... Norman Officer (uncredited)
Ron Stein ... Gorilla Guard (uncredited)
 
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Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
We’ll have plenty of opportunities to talk about the story itself, so, I’ll start doing that on my second review. Tonight I’ll focus on the choice of this show and why I find that extremely bewildering. Once I get that out of my system, I promise I’ll get down to the plot and character elements next week. So bear with me until then.


S01E01 – “The Sun in a Bottle”​

I’M BEWILDERED​

OK, not as annoying as I’d expected. Not that that says much because I really didn’t expect much, but we might just as well start with the positive side.

First of all, it’s short. Just 24 minutes. With Star Cops I’d start checking my watch every few minutes after the first half hour. In that particular, Catweazle is an improvement. And while we’re at it, the comparison is apt in many ways. Here we have a children’s show which will never amount to much because of precisely that, it’s a children’s show, but we see that in practically all technically aspects it’s vastly superior to Star Cops. Perhaps now the point I’ve been trying to make finally gets through. After all, if you like this show’s pacing, directing, editing and everything else that defines a dramatic narrative and television, you simply cannot say this is what you’d expect from a good television production and at the same time find that amateur experiment which was Star Cops anything to be taken seriously. And say what you will about this silly show, it’s technically accurate and meets all the requirements modern audiences would expect a professionally show to meet. Star Cops, on the other hand…

So, Catweazle is short, competently made as far as technical aspects are concerned, the actor is formidable (his madman look of a man out of his time in a world he can’t possibly understand is priceless) and the premise is interesting. The problem? I’d the problem is us, the audience.

The thing is, this is a children’s show. There’s no mistaking. It’s a show that was aired in the 1970s at 5 o’clock. In the afternoon. In broad daylight. On a Sunday. Right before I suppose English children would have dinner at 6 and be in bed by eight. Different people, different times. So, this show was made for children. And as a kiddies show the stakes will never, ever be high. Writers simply wouldn’t be able to risk upsetting children in the way necessary for creating a credible and moving story. And to add insult to injury, this was made for children of the 1970s. That is to say, children that are no longer children. In other words, Catweazle was made for an audience that no longer exists.

That brings me the question, why on earth would anybody want to watch this show now. This is the right show, right? I mean, if it was a practical joke on me, you can finally tell me, because, guys I really fell for it. For a minute I really thought that was the show everyone was raving about. OK, I’m going to assume this is the right show just for the sake of argument.

Would any current-day child enjoy this show? I can’t imagine any would. This show seems to be naive and out of touch with our reality. And an adult watching this for the first time? Would a situation like this be believable? Say, a man at work telling his pals in the office, “oh man, I can hardly wait to have a few drinks after work with my friends and then run home to catch up on some old Catweazle episodes.” I can’t think of that happening.

The only answer that makes a little sense to me is that magical word, which is not “electrickery,” but, something much more powerful. A magical word capable of transforming lead into gold, and much more. The magical word is nostalgia!

I checked the imdb reviews of the show and they’re 100% “I grew up watching this show,” or “I used to watch this show as a kid” or “when I was a boy I loved this show,” etc. I’m yet to find a review of someone saying “I learned of this show last weak and now I simply love it.” Pure nostalgia.

I understand the power of nostalgia, even though I don’t always connect with it on an emotional level, at least as far as television is concerned. I used to love certain shows made in the 1960s -- or at least I used to watch them regularly because, you know, lack of options… After all, we had only three or four channels, so whatever programming for children they aired, that’s what we would watch. It was that or, I don’t know, read a book or something.

Anyway, there were shows I did enjoy back in the day, but now if I watch them I’m perfectly capable of admitting they were going good in a very specific context, but they absolutely fail the test of time. So, if now I happened to turn on the TV and they happened to be showing Lost in Space, or Banana Split, Skippy the Bush Kangaroo or Flipper, I’d have no problems to admit these were pretty crappy shows. So, I understand nostalgia, but I wouldn’t want to consume the same shows again in the name of it.

This is why I’m bewildered.

Coming up next: taking the show apart. Why the premise of Catweazle has a fatal flaw that changes everything! But you’ll have to wait for next week.

My grade: I’m not a kid, and nothing in this show remotely connects with my sense of nostalgia. But I imagine that hypothetical kid watching his black and white vacuum tube television in a small English town in 1970 would’ve given this pilot a 9 or a 10, while, from my from my grownup 2018 perspective, I want to give it a 1 or a 2. So, let’s be fair and give it the average: 5 ponds that become puddles in 900 years (that part w
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
Don't tempt me. Mr Squiggle is a classic that'd happily re-watch.
I'm enjoying Mr. Squiggle more and more each minute. I see memes in the making, and Mr. Squiggle becoming the symbol of the Resistance. And I can't stop saying Mr. Squiggle. Mr. Squiggle...
 

Gavin

Member: Rank 6
VIP
It's always astonished me that, in this era of reboots and remakes, no one has ever tried to bring Mr Squiggle back. It wouldn't be the same without the original voices but it still seems like the kind of kids show that would be a success in any era.
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
Marking this series is hard to do, but I think we should mark it as fairly as possible, and as we would have done as a child.
Yes, this is why I made an average between this hypothetical child and the marks I wanted to give. The result, I believe, was essentially fair, especially as a counterpoint to those whose perception is tainted by nostalgia rose colored glasses. that makes my work even more necessary.

First thing to say is that of course this is a show that works as a trip to Nostalgia -Land.
The problem with that is that for those who grew up watching the show, this is right in their comfort zone. Otherwise, this will be a long and rather unpleasant 26-week period, which might be replaced by yet another nostalgia trip of times never lived.

but it's not a deep show, to be taken apart plotwise.
Much to the contrary, I already have a lot of meaty stuff which I just wanna dive in but I didn't refer to now because it was going to get way too long. You'll have to wait for next week like everyone else.

Geoffrey Bayldon is incredible and his performance as the series develops is going to pull at your heartstrings
That sounds like it'll get even more naive and corny. Oh, boy.

I think we should mark it as fairly as possible, and as we would have done as a child.
However, I never saw this kind of show as a child. We didn't use to import English shows back in the 1960s and early 70s, so I have no frame of reference how I, as I child, would have reacted to something so specific for that time period and British culture. I simply have no tools to do it otherwise. How can I refer to an experience that simply never happened to me? And it's been a very long time for me. So, I'm afraid all I can honestly guarantee I can do is see it as a 2018 adult and react accordingly.

You could argue that CW shouldn't understand as much modern English as he does
No, no. Both characters should be totally incomprehensible to each other. Maybe if Catweazle had been from 1666 or 1766, then things would be different. But that's part of the poetic license British TV and movie writers use. You should check the show Vikings and you'll be astonished at how people in Scandinavia, Wessex, Northumbria and France sounded.
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
It was 50/50 I almost typed Toad, ah well. :emoji_grin:
Well, what is it? Is it a toad or is it not? What which pair os more different? A toad and a frog, a monkey and an ape, a horse and a zebra, a lemon and a lime, a puma and a cougar, a rabbit and a hare, a jaguar and a leopard, a dolphin and a porpoise, a turtle and a tortoise, or a crocodile and an alligator? (Feel free to answer that in a 1 to 10 scale of "differenceness.") I'll never be able to sleep again until I get these questions answered.

Now, seriously, what's the deal with the toad?
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
Good gravy! What was the big hurry? We used to have a two week break in between shows, now we just finished voting and bang - first episode posted already. I wasn't expecting such a rush, so I haven't even had time to watch it yet. I'll try to watch as soon as possible.
What was the big hurry? I'll tell you what the big hurry is, at least from my perspective. I was in the same frame of mind as you, and I was waiting for your "Star Cops by the numbers" report and, only after we had covered that, then we would start worrying about even nominating the next possible choices. Meanwhile, much to my surprise, while you and I were musing, ant-mac quickly posted an entry asking for nominations and reposting the nomination rules I had written for the show eventually picked by "Blake's Sages," even though those rules no longer applied to single season shows.

I felt the timing was too early, and the divergent rules were going to create yet another controversy we did not need, so I felt things were about to get out of control again, just as it happened when I took a little longer to post on the Star Cops board and Michael filled in what he perceived as a vacuum. Considering all that and afraid the train could derail, yet again, I felt the best thing to do was to get on the train and make sure it at least ran safely, and if we took our sweet time as we always did, the aforementioned train would speed away immediately anyway, but this time without us.

So... Here's where we find ourselves now.
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
I'll give this episode 7 out of 10 because it was fairly enjoyable but I'm not yet convinced that the concept is strong enough for an entire series.
Have you seen Sleepy Hollow? Ichabod Crane was really baffled the first times he encountered modern technology, and he even had some hilarious moments, like when he had several respectful conversations with Siri. Yet, that soon got old and before Season 1 ended he was quite adapted to the 21st century, as the focus of the show was the supernatural dangers he and Abby would have to face. Meanwhile there were B stories about practical aspects of Ichabod's life, like opening a checking account, finding a place to life and pay rent, and, ultimately, obtaining his American citizenship. Naturally he couoldn't be baffled and bewildered by modern technology very long, even though Crane, pretty much like Catweazle, was a sort of wizard as well, and dabble in the occult with impressive results.



 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
It was reminiscent of MY FAVORITE MARTIAN and shows of its kind, and being dated in 1969, fit right into the same timeframe. Back then, on American TV we have what are now labeled “the gimmick shows” with beings like witches, genies, and Martians using their magic powers every week while keeping their identities secret. Don’t know if the same thing happened in other countries at that time, but it was an amusing and innocent time for us.
I remember My Favorite Martian (And did you know that was made into a movie with Christopher Lloyd and Jeff Daniels in the roles previously taken by Ray Walston and Bill Bixby? - All this without checking imdb). We also had Bewitched, I Dream of Jeannie, The Ghost and Mrs. Muiir, My Mother the Car, Mr. Ed...Oh, yeah, I've watched my fair share of crappy TV shows that looked good back int he day.

Speaking of gimmick shows, I just saw a review of The Good Doctor. So, this guy is a first-rate surgeon and he's also... autistic, and not in the trolling Internet sense. And a few years ago we had Monk, a many who suffered from OCD and was a genius detective. In other words, now the gimmick is giving the character a handicap or a disease and basically make him a superhero because of that.
 

Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
I haven't found a working link, so if you have one, let me know. Meanwhile, I'l continue my observations of the pilot.


CATWEAZLE’S GREATEST WRITING FLAW AND WHY THE SHOW IS NO LONGER WHAT YOU THINK WHAT IT IS​

OK, OK, I admit this is a clickbait title, an exaggeration. Especially considering that some of you have already touched the subject at least marginally, so it’s not like nobody saw it coming. But still I have a theory I’d like to take to its last consequences and once you’ve understood it, you’ll realize it makes a hell lot of sense.

Let’s start with the show’s basic premise and, from that, extrapolate to what we can assume was the writers’ intention. I’m going to quote some of your comments while I do that.

Back then, on American TV we have what are now labeled “the gimmick shows” with beings like witches, genies, and Martians using their magic powers every week while keeping their identities secret. (…) Plus we have the whole “fish out of water” routine as Catweazle gasps in amazement at our modern technology. And thus is the concept set up in the pilot episode.
Took the words right out of my mouth, at least as far as the ichthyological part is concerned. I’m no ichthyologist, but “fish out of water” is literally the first expression that came to my mind as I thought of describing this show. The concept tries to obtain humor and drama from the fact a person is a stranger in a strange land. Say, we have an Indian trying to understand White man’s society where he now finds himself. Or a cowboy among Indians. Or an Indian in London. Or a Londoner in India. Or an Indian (native) in India (India).

In this scenario, the “fish” can be from a more technologically advanced society, but is often from a more primitive one. They don’t understand fundamental things even when a kid does, and that’s funny, of course, because people who look stupid are funny and we should make fun of them. When the “fish” is advanced, he’ll learn some valuable lesson from the primitive ones and will become more humble. But if the “fish” is more of a noble savage, then he’ll get to teach them a valuable moral lesson and everybody else will be humbled.

OK, back to the show. The “fish out of the water” concept applies. And notice that Catweazle comes to “our” time by coming out of the water. That can’t be a coincidence, and the writers wouldn’t use such a powerful symbolism at random.

The writers must’ve thought how an ancient man who believe in magic would fare in the modern, vibrant, technological society of the 1970s. So much so that even a kid who doesn’t look particularly brilliant (but conveniently knows a lot about history that happened one millennium ago) knows that Catweazle is being stupid. Look, CAtweazle thinks a tractor is a dangerous beast. Ha, ha! That’s stupid. (In fact when I think of 1066, I think of early humans hunting mammoths and Neanderthals, so yes that’s very primitive.) Catweazle doesn’t understand electricity and can’t even pronounce the word. Funny! Catweazle is under the assumption a mini thermonuclear reaction is happening inside a light bulb, therefore it must contain the power of a star. Hilarious!

Carrot, who here is just a surrogate for the target audience, knows that Catweazle is wrong and is talking nonsense. After all, the kid (Carrot the character and the kid watching the show) has learned in school how electricity works, why combustion engine vehicles move and how light bulbs are built. And he probably has asked his father about that stuff, so he knows that he can take satisfaction from the fact he knows way more than an old man like Catweazle.

But in order to create this “fish out of water” situation, Catweazle had to be brought to present time. Perhaps someone suggested a time machine, but then that would require actual rational thinking and lots of explanations that would shift the focus of the show, so that idea was discarded from the writing room. The answer is simple; it’s that simple trick that always help a writer when he has no idea how to explain something. MAGIC!

Magic is great because you don’t have to explain or understand anything. Magic happens out of the blue and there we have the plot contrivance we wanted. And at some point the writers thought it would be fun if Catweazle were magical himself so their case would be water tight: magic happens because Catweazle is a wizard, though a rather incompetent one.

However, that’s when the writers’ premise falls apart. If Catweazle had come to the 20th century because of a scientist’s time machine or, you know, alien science, then he could make the stupid assumption he wanted about modern technology and he would still be the laughing stock school kids watching the show think he is. No matter what,. He would always be wrong.

However, that’s not what happened. Well, before I continue, I must point out that Catweazle, the show, happens in an alternate universe whose natural laws work very differently from those in our universe. There is MAGIC, it’s a real thing, it is used by people, and a thousand years ago it was mastered quite well by some people at least. So, not only there is magic, but also, Catweazle is the source, or conduit, of such magic.

So, here how the story should be told. Catweazle is running from his enemies, the “Normals,” and unintentionally goes to the future. It should be noted that magic is not an easy thing to master and there are other wizards that are much more proficient than Catweazle, have more money and resources to improve their skills, or have the support from a member of the Nobility, probably someone from the “Normals.” But still, Catweazle does very impressive things.

When he gets to the future, he realizes that the people have forgotten all botu magic, though it surrounds them. The problem is that they think there’s a mundane explanation for every magic feat he sees, and that fills him with concern. Those future people have no idea what they are dealing with and, be honest, how would you react if you traveled to the future and saw children playing with nuclear artifacts in blissful ignorance? Wouldn’t that drive you mad as well?

So, Catweazle immediately understands how dangerous electrickery is, and he knows that tractors may turn against their owners any moment if they inadvertently perverts the spell that made them alive in the first place. But what really scares him to death is the fact that at any moment all little suns kept in bottles may go critic and blow up this entire planet just because these future people are children playing with fire.

OK, wait a minute, I know how electricity, and light bulbs, and internal combustion engines, and telephones, and radios work, and it’s not magic. It’s science. Oh, yeah? You see miracles all around you every day, but because a teacher or a scientist makes up an explanation that would don’t really understand you just start accepting the supernatural that easily? Without questioning? OK, now you’re going to tell me you believe Earth is a ball and the moon landings are not fake, right? You’re a lost case.

In case you needed further convincing, I say this: your society may have produced telephones, cars, and incandescent light bulbs. But can you time travel? NO! Can you fly just by saying a few words? NO! Can you do a Jedi mind trick and possibly give a kid permanent brain damage to a boy who’s not so smart to begin with? NO! Then, shut up and listen to Catweazle, your new leader. The ONLY man in the world who sees things for what they are: magical and dangerous.

Of course, there was that final scene in episode one in which Catweazle tried to light a kerosene lamp by flipping a latch, which was hilarious because it made poor Catweazle look as intelligent as my cat, who taps on a door knob or always pushes doors to open them (even when they have to be pulled instead) and simply can’t figure out what went wrong. It would have been a stroke of genius on eht part of the writing team if Catweazle had actually managed to light the kerosene lamp by means of his magic of association and analogy; that would really blow everyone’s minds. Instead, they went with the “logical” and “grounded” approach. However, we can still argue that Catweazle is not very competent as a magician, he doesn’t understand how magic has evolved 900 years later, and is probably just making some basic mistake.

But YOU shouldn’t make the mistake of laughing at Catweazle’s reactions to technology because there’s no such thing. In this alternate reality, IT’S ALL MAGIC! And basically humanity is doomed.

Catweazle is a much more evolved human from a distant past, now trying to bring humanity back to the pinnacle of enlightenment. Unfortunately man became stupid after so many centuries, so Catweazle's task is a very daunting one. These images illustrate his challenge:

taylor = catweazle.jpg

George = catweazle.jpg
 
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Mad-Pac

Member: Rank 5
Without wishing to steal M-P's thunder, I am going to press on with viewing and reviewing the CATWEAZLE episodes using the existent threads. Just to allow people to go at their own pace. Any duplicate threads can ultimately be merged together at a later date, but this at least allows people to have the option of going through the show at a speed of their own choice.
Oh, I miss the time when we would tackle a new show everybody else hadn't already seen it and review it. It used to be a journey of discovery and first reactions. Now it seems that we're eating reheated leftovers all the time.

Anyway, I see that all episodes have been reviewed already, so there are entries for each and every episode. We might just as well skip to the last one! Now, seriously, the idea of having a new thread was meant as a suggestion that everybody could watch the episode for the first time on that Friday and comment on it on the weekend. It was a way of simulating what a group of friends would do if they joined, ordered a pizza and some beers and watched the show together.

So, things worked much better when everyone was at the same pace. Sometimes it was not possible, but people would try to keep up with the group.
 
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