Review The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)

apostasia

apostasia

Member: Rank 1
Carol said:
In the battle where Sauron looses both hand and Ring: how come we can SEE him? Obviously easier to amputate your enemy's bits and attendant jewellery that way...but, help me out folks - WHY IS HE VISIBLE?
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Gandalf mentions that the Ring gave Smeagol 'power according to his stature'. Being invisible is a nifty trick for a hobbit - or even a lord of men like Isildur, who is nevertheless weak and vulnerable to its power. But of rather less use to its master, the Dark Lord, who doesn't need invisibility when he's trying to strike fear and terror into the heart of his foes, and wants to be seen smiting them left, right and centre, terrible in his power.

'Look upon my face and tremble!' doesn't work quite so well if the answer is, 'Blimey, who just said that?'
 
Carol

Carol

Member: Rank 5
apostasia said:
'Look upon my face and tremble!' doesn't work quite so well if the answer is, 'Blimey, who just said that?'
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I like your style, and hello, Apostasia, thanks for the reply!

Yes, I see how that works - although I'm pretty sure that Prof Tolkein in some respects was operating on purely verbal lines whereas Peter J had to help us visualise the narrative. "Shit! Who just said that" would still, I think, creep me out a bit more than Visible Big Formidable Adversary at 12.00 o'clock... leg it in THIS other direction. That's the thing with Dark Lords, isn't it? A bit showy.

Watching the DVD extras my heart went out to all the hobbit actors (and their make up artists) who were gluing on hairy feet at stupid o'clock every day for - what was it - two whole years, when, honestly, I really could talk about my love of the books, and films. till the beer ran out and still never get round to mentioning my total indifference to actors' bloody feet!
 
apostasia

apostasia

Member: Rank 1
Carol said:
I like your style, and hello, Apostasia, thanks for the reply!
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Why, thank you, and hello too! Lovely to be here!

Carol said:
Yes, I see how that works - although I'm pretty sure that Prof Tolkein in some respects was operating on purely verbal lines whereas Peter J had to help us visualise the narrative.
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Well, I'm not sure it was entirely verbal:

Elrond said:
I was the herald of Gil-galad and marched with his host. I was at the Battle of Dagorlad before the Black Gate of Mordor, where we had the mastery: for the Spear of Gil-galad and the Sword of Elendil, Aiglos and Narsil, none could withstand. I beheld the last combat on the slopes of Orodruin, where Gil-galad died, and Elendil fell, and Narsil broke beneath him; but Sauron himself was overthrown, and Isildur cut the Ring from his hand with the hilt-shard of his father’s sword, and took it for his own.
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That doesn't sound like testimony from someone who was saying, 'We went to war, and then something all weird and invisible happened!' I think the point is Elrond could clearly see it, and was distraught, and could see what it meant, for the weakness of men, for the future of the Elves, and for the rest of Middle-Earth. That's part of the tragedy. He clearly saw Isildur cutting the Ring from Sauron.

...And if Elrond had simply seen Isildur bump off someone invisible in the corner, why would he come to the conclusion that it must be the One Ring?

`Alas! yes,’ said Elrond. `Isildur took it, as should not have been. It should have been cast then into Orodruin’s fire nigh at hand where it was made. But few marked what Isildur did. He alone stood by his father in that last mortal contest; and by Gil-galad only Círdan stood, and I. But Isildur would not listen to our counsel.
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Carol

Carol

Member: Rank 5
Thank you - when you put it like that it makes a lot of sense (although I've always found Elrond a bit shifty to be honest).
Think I might have to did my copy out for a nice long Easter read... backfilling the gaps the films couldn't quite sqeeze in.
 
apostasia

apostasia

Member: Rank 1
Carol said:
Thank you - when you put it like that it makes a lot of sense (although I've always found Elrond a bit shifty to be honest).
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I think there's a legitimate discussion to be had about why Elrond - who, let's face it, isn't stood on the slopes of Mount Doom with an army at his back just for the sake of a nice afternoon picnic in Mordor - doesn't do more to stop Isildur, and why when Isildur snatches the Ring, Elrond effectively just rolls his eyes, and tuts, 'Bloody men, eh? Would you believe it?!' and walks off. I imagine Elrond's thinking as:

Elrond's brain said:
'Hmmm, well I can see that this unexpected turn of events is going to lead to an entire Age of misery and despair, and ultimately precipitate the final departure of my entire people from these lands forever. I wonder if I and the massive Elven army at my back, knee-deep in the blood of the slaughtered, who have all come here precisely for this purpose, should do something at this point? Nah, tell you what, let's just all have a big, sad Elven jamboree about how hard life is for a few thousand years, leave it to someone else to do all the work, and then promptly bugger off forever to eternal joy. Hey, we can sing sad songs and everything!
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I mean, I'm guessing the Ring is weaving its magic on Elrond as much as on Isildur, and even Elrond, having brought an entire war purely for this purpose, is suddenly undone and can't see it through. But all the same. It is odd.

(Having suddenly wondered this, and looked it up, there is a possibly slightly more sensible discussion of this same point at the link below)

https://www.quora.com/In-Fellowship...-from-leaving-without-destroying-the-One-Ring
 
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Elessar

Elessar

Member: Rank 2
@apostasia : it's a pleasure to discuss LOTR with you, both the books and the movies!

You may be right, the Ring is weaving its magic on Elrond as well. Other reasons stated in that link you gave are all credible: problem of free will, war between Men and Elves etc.

I myself think that Elrond doesn't see any solution other than letting it be. He doesn't see any person capable of touching the ring and not be corrupted by it, even himself. Only when hobbits came into the picture that he had a solution.
 
Carol

Carol

Member: Rank 5
Elessar said:
@apostasia : it's a pleasure to discuss LOTR with you, both the books and the movies!
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Likewise to the both of you- fascinating ideas, but maybe still room for a few other possible perspectives on Elrond:

Given he's still fairly young (for an elf) back then - he just wasn't mature enough to think through the consequences...

Given that he's half-elven, he might have been compromised by divided loyalties to his half-elf-instinct to intervene (due to cosmic insights, paying attention to the machinations of evil and general pompousness) and to a mortal tendency to think that kings have got it all under control...

Given that he is himself an hereditary ring-bearer, he might be just a bit biased and confused by compensating for the whole Ring Envy thing...

(And of course the default - if he'd twisted Isildur's arm to do the right thing way back when - it'd have been a very short book.)
 
Gavin

Gavin

Member: Rank 6
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From the books, at least from my understanding, it doesn't appear that anyone realises that the ring needed to be destroyed in Isildur's time. They just knew of it as a weapon of Sauron and probably assumed that once it was taken from him it could be used by whoever had it. There's nothing to indicate that there was any understanding that the ring would corrupt until Gandalf researched it's history and questioned Gollum. The movie's portrayal that Elrond knew the ring had to be destroyed means that it makes little sense that he ever let Isildur go. If he knew the ring was evil and would corrupt whoever owned it he should have immediately tried to take it from Isildur.
 
chainsaw_metal1

chainsaw_metal1

Member: Rank 8
Very funny, but seriously. I know it's looked down upon to read...well, any book these days, but anyone still whining about the "numerous endings" of Return of the King should try to read the book. That ending dragged on more than the movie did.

Really folks, read a fucking book!
 
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