ant-mac
Member: Rank 9
I certainly thought he was the best incarnation since 1996.
It's just a shame about everything else.
Review Series 12
- Thread starter Doctor Omega
- Start date
It's just a shame about everything else.
Doctor Omega
Member: Rank 10
From PLANET MONDAS forum......
https://www.curtisbrown.co.uk/client/prasanna-puwanarajah
https://www.curtisbrown.co.uk/client/victoria-asare-archer
https://www.curtisbrown.co.uk/client/prasanna-puwanarajah
https://www.curtisbrown.co.uk/client/victoria-asare-archer
I remember the days when it was 46 episodes a year. Times change.
There was a period when we got 13 25 minute episodes a year. Be thankful for what we get. One episode a year is better than nothing.
The Seeker
Member: Rank 6
So that’s where we are now. Way to treat us BBC, Doctor Who!!!
I think we're far better off now. We may be only getting short seasons but the quality is way higher than we got by the end of the eighties.
ant-mac
Member: Rank 9
I'd much rather re-watch anything from the 80s before I'd consider re-watching anything that came after the 1996 TV movie.
Doctor Omega
Member: Rank 10
I think that has been the problem with the new show a lot. Massively hyped event television that (after the fuss has died down and post broadcast) is reduced to ultimately disposable television that gathers dust on one's shelf....
....while Classic Who quietly endures as new generations find different ways of studying it and looking back at it.
Coz even it's failures were, in my opinion, interesting.
Oh my God! This poster!?!? Is Amy really going to die in ASYLUM OF THE DALEKS?!?
(The same story where every Dalek type that had ever been in the show was going to make a spectacular appearance.
Yeah, right. I think I made out a special weapons dalek in the shadows somewhere, though it might have been a fire hydrant.)
Let's mislead the fans - again - to get them watching.....
Rose is going to die! No she isn't.
The Doctor is going to regenerate into David Morrisey! No he isn't.
Donna is going to die! No she isn't....
On and on....
But, in all honesty, when was the last time anyone actually watched ASYLUM OF THE DALEKS?, bland, safe and disappointing thing that it is - with companions often throwing smart arsed quips out in the face of jeopardy, as always. The same old same old.
The old show was also open to more interesting madness, so that when it failed it at least had the decency to fail spectacularly.
Ingrid Pitt suggests that she will look good trying out karate on the Myrka, which is already a walking budgetary disaster. The showmakers say "sure!".
But I would still rather put on this fascinating car crash than the vast, vast majority of the new stuff, which is all just samey and.... meh!!.
In Classic Who, one story was never like the next one. An EARTHSHOCK could be followed by a TIMEFLIGHT. An ANDROZANI followed by a DILEMMA. A FEAST OF STEVEN could be smack bang in the middle of a DALEKS' MASTERPLAN!
"What the hell were they thinking when they made this?!?" is part of the fun and the fascination for me.
I couldn't care less what they were thinking when they made the - ultimately mostly bland and soapy - new stuff - and could care about re-watching it even less.
....while Classic Who quietly endures as new generations find different ways of studying it and looking back at it.
Coz even it's failures were, in my opinion, interesting.
Oh my God! This poster!?!? Is Amy really going to die in ASYLUM OF THE DALEKS?!?
(The same story where every Dalek type that had ever been in the show was going to make a spectacular appearance.
Yeah, right. I think I made out a special weapons dalek in the shadows somewhere, though it might have been a fire hydrant.)
Let's mislead the fans - again - to get them watching.....
Rose is going to die! No she isn't.
The Doctor is going to regenerate into David Morrisey! No he isn't.
Donna is going to die! No she isn't....
On and on....
But, in all honesty, when was the last time anyone actually watched ASYLUM OF THE DALEKS?, bland, safe and disappointing thing that it is - with companions often throwing smart arsed quips out in the face of jeopardy, as always. The same old same old.
The old show was also open to more interesting madness, so that when it failed it at least had the decency to fail spectacularly.
Ingrid Pitt suggests that she will look good trying out karate on the Myrka, which is already a walking budgetary disaster. The showmakers say "sure!".
But I would still rather put on this fascinating car crash than the vast, vast majority of the new stuff, which is all just samey and.... meh!!.
In Classic Who, one story was never like the next one. An EARTHSHOCK could be followed by a TIMEFLIGHT. An ANDROZANI followed by a DILEMMA. A FEAST OF STEVEN could be smack bang in the middle of a DALEKS' MASTERPLAN!
"What the hell were they thinking when they made this?!?" is part of the fun and the fascination for me.
I couldn't care less what they were thinking when they made the - ultimately mostly bland and soapy - new stuff - and could care about re-watching it even less.
Last edited:
Doctor Omega
Member: Rank 10
The 2019 series.... well, RESOLUTION.... is a perfect example.
The Daleks are teased. Visions swell in the mind of Jodie facing an army of Daleks as she uncovers their latest nefarious plan. Now at last she has a chance to show her mettle as the Doctor.
Instead, throughout most of the episode, we get a rip off of the LUPTON/SARAH JANE possessed scenes from PLANET OF THE SPIDERS......
And instead of Jodie facing a formidable Dalek threat, she ends up facing..... this.....
She throws not particularly well-delivered quips at it. Just like she did Tim Shaw. It might as well be Tim Shaw or the Absorbaloff, for all the impact on view.
It wants to send a signal to summon a Dalek fleet. But the budget doesn't stretch to a Dalek fleet, so no chance of that signal getting sent or them turning up.
And a word to the Dalek. All of your Skaro ingenuity is useless, so long as humanity has a microwave oven spare.
Shelf. Dust. Gather.
Not sure how they will package this 2019 series though. Maybe stick a free t-shirt in a case with the disk or something to make the box set look fuller.
The Daleks are teased. Visions swell in the mind of Jodie facing an army of Daleks as she uncovers their latest nefarious plan. Now at last she has a chance to show her mettle as the Doctor.
Instead, throughout most of the episode, we get a rip off of the LUPTON/SARAH JANE possessed scenes from PLANET OF THE SPIDERS......
And instead of Jodie facing a formidable Dalek threat, she ends up facing..... this.....
She throws not particularly well-delivered quips at it. Just like she did Tim Shaw. It might as well be Tim Shaw or the Absorbaloff, for all the impact on view.
It wants to send a signal to summon a Dalek fleet. But the budget doesn't stretch to a Dalek fleet, so no chance of that signal getting sent or them turning up.
And a word to the Dalek. All of your Skaro ingenuity is useless, so long as humanity has a microwave oven spare.
Shelf. Dust. Gather.
Not sure how they will package this 2019 series though. Maybe stick a free t-shirt in a case with the disk or something to make the box set look fuller.
Last edited:
ant-mac
Member: Rank 9
Remember the fourth Doctor comic strip, THE JUNKYARD DEMONS?
For some reason, I keep thinking of it...
Doctor Omega
Member: Rank 10
I actually liked the concept of a Kaled mutant rebuilding it's casing from whatever it could find to hand. That was actually the absolutely one single thing I liked in the entire episode. Sorry, 2019 series. But the execution of the rest of the story was same old, same old, blands-ville, with added soap opera scenes, to make me think I was watching EASTENDERS at one point.
Doctor Omega
Member: Rank 10
ant-mac
Member: Rank 9
I didn't mind the story, but the quality of the artwork was fucking awful.
Doctor Omega
Member: Rank 10
That's Mike McMahon. He was notorious for giving Judge Dredd ridiculously big boots - as you can see from the Cyber-feet. 
ant-mac
Member: Rank 9
And, apparently, a hitherto unknown incarnation of the Doctor...That's Mike McMahon. He was notorious for giving Judge Dredd ridiculously big boots - as you can see from the Cyber-feet.
Possibly one of those unidentified renegades from THE BRAIN OF MORBIUS.
Whatever works for you. I've re-watched the new show much more than the old episodes. I find that for the classic series, the novelisations work better for me. That way I can imagine the stories with high quality special effects.
ant-mac
Member: Rank 9
I've re-watched all existing material from Classic Who - complete, incomplete and existing fragments from serials - multiple times. I think I can count on one hand how many different New Who serials I've seen more than once - and some of them were only mini-episodes.
And the best DOCTOR WHO was never ever about the special effects. I think anyone who has ever focused on that aspect has completely missed the point of the TV show.
I would also be personally ashamed and deeply embarrassed to take such a cheap and shallow approach to Old Who, but as you say, whatever works for you.
Doctor Omega
Member: Rank 10
I have tried re-reading certain novelisations, but have always given up, since I can't get past the fact that we ultimately don't need the novelisations anymore. We have the shows on our shelf, so long as we can see beyond mere effects.
At least one acception I would make is THE MASSACRE novelisation, since it is based on an entirely different, rejected, draft of the script. Also I might give Donald Cotton's books a whirl, but suspect his comedic letters written by different witnesses approach will get old real fast. Perhaps the likes of Ian Marter or Malcolm Hulke, just to revisit their prose styles, but more likely not.
I had an open mind when the show returned in 2005, but it has been the death of a thousand cuts for me, with tiny disappointments.... burping wheelie bins, farting aliens..... followed by major irritations..... One of the main ones being that the companion now had to be such a confident and empowered figure that the immediate and very real terrors of space were no longer allowed to hold any terror whatsoever.
EVIDENCE FOR THE NEW WHO PROSECUTION: ITEM 1......
Why should Bill be terrified of the Daleks about to exterminate her when she can instead point out that they are fat, so can't fit through doors; and then take time to ask: what if the last Dalek in the factory ended up with two plungers coz they had run out of guns? ; and takes even more time to ask: why don't they say the shorter word "kill" instead of "exterminate"......
All while the Doctor is raving about the very real danger that they are in - and the marauding, firing Daleks are a mere hair's breadth away......
And if Bill - the audience identification figure - is not bothered enough to be terrified by the Daleks, why would the audience, watching at home, bother being terrified by them either?
And making the Doctor the terrified party in this clip simply does not compensate for that changing of the nature of the companion. He is not supposed to be our audience identification figure; the companion is.
It seems as if whoever wrote this learned the rules of good drama backwards. In fact, one would almost suspect that this was written by somebody more comfortable writing observational comedy, taking the piss out of things, instead of terrifying adventures in space and time that grip the childish imagination with a universe of horrors and wonders.
The companions are all played now as if they know, at the end of the day, that they are in that famous tv show called DOCTOR WHO - and are probably in no real danger, coz companions rarely die, so can happily ignore the jeopardy of the scene they are in, while taking the piss out of the monsters.
(They also seem to save any good acting for the slushy soap opera or,"heartbreaking" bits, where they throw everything into their performances, perhaps hoping to bag a BAFTA? But, for the love of God, there are only so many companions "blubbing helplessly at an emotional loss" or "raging angrily at the Doctor" scenes that I can take!
EVIDENCE FOR THE NEW WHO PROSECUTION: ITEM 2:
Four minutes of emotionally manipulative slush (the "power" of which would be negated later down the line anyway).......
EVIDENCE FOR THE NEW WHO PROSECUTION: ITEM 3:
Four minutes of emotionally manipulative slush (the "power" of which would be negated later down the line anyway).......
EVIDENCE FOR THE CLASSIC WHO DEFENCE: ITEM 1:
Everybody loves Sarah Jane, but my God, she was terrified of the terrors of the universe, while nonetheless trying to be brave......
...... with no time for a drama-deflating quip.
Doing the right thing while scared was, in my opinion, a far better lesson for the watching, impressionable audience than being taught how to be a smart-arse in the face of danger.
When they brought her back we were suddenly told that she had always been in love with the Doctor, coz Murray Gold had some treacly music he needed to slather over something.
No. The Doctor was her best friend. Elizabeth Sladen had always stated this in interviews. He was the best friend that she would face the terrors of the universe for. This "in love" thing was simply retcon slush to make Sarah fit in with the sensibilities of the new show..
None of that blubbing for her when she left either.....
EVIDENCE FOR THE CLASSIC WHO DEFENCE: ITEM 2:
Four minutes of a well acted, moving farewell, without any slushy, BAFTA-baiting, counterfeit emotion........ Nor does she collapse into a blubbering puddle when the Tardis vanishes, which makes the whole "she was in love with the Doctor" thing even more suspect........
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the making of heavy-handed and clumsy - politically correct - points really DID creep in more and more as time went on....
Did Clara really just threaten to slap the Doctor so hard he would regenerate? Would Bradley ever be allowed to say that to Jodie?.........
Did the General really just say "Back to normal am I? Only time I was a man, that body.... Dear Lord, how do you cope with all that ego?" Would a male Time Lord ever say the flip-side of that about the woman he had just been?
It was all just out of place crap that had drifted away from - and was getting in the way of - the telling of terrifying adventures in space and time.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And that was, imo, the ace that the old series still has over the new. It just wanted to tell cracking yarns of terrifying adventures in time and space.
The new series just wants to break your heart - but not really - coz nobody actually dies or means it when they say goodbye. And it wants to make you laugh along with the companions as they face down the terrors of the universe with quips. And it wants to loudly make it clear to you - in case you haven't got the message - that it is toeing the line when it comes to equality for all (except, apparently, if you are a father or an egotistical male.).
But It is scared to really scare anybody - and being given permission to be genuinely scared is what made the old series so brilliant.
And now, when I watch the actor playing Noah hold that green sprayed bubblewrap wrapped around his arm up to himself, I see beyond that, to the thick, gelatinous slime that I had once seen his arm turning into - as he painfully transformed into something nightmarish and terrifying - when I first saw that story as a kid.
At least one acception I would make is THE MASSACRE novelisation, since it is based on an entirely different, rejected, draft of the script. Also I might give Donald Cotton's books a whirl, but suspect his comedic letters written by different witnesses approach will get old real fast. Perhaps the likes of Ian Marter or Malcolm Hulke, just to revisit their prose styles, but more likely not.
I had an open mind when the show returned in 2005, but it has been the death of a thousand cuts for me, with tiny disappointments.... burping wheelie bins, farting aliens..... followed by major irritations..... One of the main ones being that the companion now had to be such a confident and empowered figure that the immediate and very real terrors of space were no longer allowed to hold any terror whatsoever.
EVIDENCE FOR THE NEW WHO PROSECUTION: ITEM 1......
Why should Bill be terrified of the Daleks about to exterminate her when she can instead point out that they are fat, so can't fit through doors; and then take time to ask: what if the last Dalek in the factory ended up with two plungers coz they had run out of guns? ; and takes even more time to ask: why don't they say the shorter word "kill" instead of "exterminate"......
All while the Doctor is raving about the very real danger that they are in - and the marauding, firing Daleks are a mere hair's breadth away......
And if Bill - the audience identification figure - is not bothered enough to be terrified by the Daleks, why would the audience, watching at home, bother being terrified by them either?
And making the Doctor the terrified party in this clip simply does not compensate for that changing of the nature of the companion. He is not supposed to be our audience identification figure; the companion is.
It seems as if whoever wrote this learned the rules of good drama backwards. In fact, one would almost suspect that this was written by somebody more comfortable writing observational comedy, taking the piss out of things, instead of terrifying adventures in space and time that grip the childish imagination with a universe of horrors and wonders.
The companions are all played now as if they know, at the end of the day, that they are in that famous tv show called DOCTOR WHO - and are probably in no real danger, coz companions rarely die, so can happily ignore the jeopardy of the scene they are in, while taking the piss out of the monsters.
(They also seem to save any good acting for the slushy soap opera or,"heartbreaking" bits, where they throw everything into their performances, perhaps hoping to bag a BAFTA? But, for the love of God, there are only so many companions "blubbing helplessly at an emotional loss" or "raging angrily at the Doctor" scenes that I can take!
EVIDENCE FOR THE NEW WHO PROSECUTION: ITEM 2:
Four minutes of emotionally manipulative slush (the "power" of which would be negated later down the line anyway).......
EVIDENCE FOR THE NEW WHO PROSECUTION: ITEM 3:
Four minutes of emotionally manipulative slush (the "power" of which would be negated later down the line anyway).......
EVIDENCE FOR THE CLASSIC WHO DEFENCE: ITEM 1:
Everybody loves Sarah Jane, but my God, she was terrified of the terrors of the universe, while nonetheless trying to be brave......
...... with no time for a drama-deflating quip.
Doing the right thing while scared was, in my opinion, a far better lesson for the watching, impressionable audience than being taught how to be a smart-arse in the face of danger.
When they brought her back we were suddenly told that she had always been in love with the Doctor, coz Murray Gold had some treacly music he needed to slather over something.
No. The Doctor was her best friend. Elizabeth Sladen had always stated this in interviews. He was the best friend that she would face the terrors of the universe for. This "in love" thing was simply retcon slush to make Sarah fit in with the sensibilities of the new show..
None of that blubbing for her when she left either.....
EVIDENCE FOR THE CLASSIC WHO DEFENCE: ITEM 2:
Four minutes of a well acted, moving farewell, without any slushy, BAFTA-baiting, counterfeit emotion........ Nor does she collapse into a blubbering puddle when the Tardis vanishes, which makes the whole "she was in love with the Doctor" thing even more suspect........
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the making of heavy-handed and clumsy - politically correct - points really DID creep in more and more as time went on....
Did Clara really just threaten to slap the Doctor so hard he would regenerate? Would Bradley ever be allowed to say that to Jodie?.........
Did the General really just say "Back to normal am I? Only time I was a man, that body.... Dear Lord, how do you cope with all that ego?" Would a male Time Lord ever say the flip-side of that about the woman he had just been?
It was all just out of place crap that had drifted away from - and was getting in the way of - the telling of terrifying adventures in space and time.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And that was, imo, the ace that the old series still has over the new. It just wanted to tell cracking yarns of terrifying adventures in time and space.
The new series just wants to break your heart - but not really - coz nobody actually dies or means it when they say goodbye. And it wants to make you laugh along with the companions as they face down the terrors of the universe with quips. And it wants to loudly make it clear to you - in case you haven't got the message - that it is toeing the line when it comes to equality for all (except, apparently, if you are a father or an egotistical male.).
But It is scared to really scare anybody - and being given permission to be genuinely scared is what made the old series so brilliant.
And now, when I watch the actor playing Noah hold that green sprayed bubblewrap wrapped around his arm up to himself, I see beyond that, to the thick, gelatinous slime that I had once seen his arm turning into - as he painfully transformed into something nightmarish and terrifying - when I first saw that story as a kid.
Last edited:
The Seeker
Member: Rank 6
A few observations:
We’re lucky that in the actual show Bill wasn’t the clueless quipster she was in that preview. I think it was just meant to be funny, but it was - am I using this expression correctly? - taking the piss out of the Daleks, the Doctor’s arch enemy. NuWho has a tendency to take pot shots at classic villians, doesn’t it?
Emotionally manipulative slush being negated later on - YES! This! A hundred times this! So far Chibnall has avoided this. No Grace coming back to life and saving everyone, and please let’s not ever see that again! I felt like Davies would have performed fellatio on the Doctor if he were a real person and looked like David Tennant! And yes it was sacrilege retconning Sarah Jane’s relationship with the Doctor because of course he’s so magnificent and hot and sexy and every woman wants him. (I was glad to see Donna shoot the Doctor down when he suggested such a dynamic with her - making her my favorite companion!) Another thing about Davies and the Tenth Doctor - RTD was too full of himself and all the wonderful new characters he created for this show that he had to hit us over the head with them for the Doctor’s completely mawkish regeneration.
And whatever RTD felt for the Doctor Moffat felt towards Clara, for some reason, making her the Doctor’s mommy, having the Doctor be so enamored with her instead of the other way around, having her erase his memory, having her cross his timeline, and JFC undoing her death by stopping her heart from beating, seriously, that makes about as much sense as saying the moon is a giant egg - oh wait. Bill was a much more satisfactory companion.
I have enjoyed NuWho, don’t get me wrong, but these are such obvious missteps they really and truly frustrate me.
We’re lucky that in the actual show Bill wasn’t the clueless quipster she was in that preview. I think it was just meant to be funny, but it was - am I using this expression correctly? - taking the piss out of the Daleks, the Doctor’s arch enemy. NuWho has a tendency to take pot shots at classic villians, doesn’t it?
Emotionally manipulative slush being negated later on - YES! This! A hundred times this! So far Chibnall has avoided this. No Grace coming back to life and saving everyone, and please let’s not ever see that again! I felt like Davies would have performed fellatio on the Doctor if he were a real person and looked like David Tennant! And yes it was sacrilege retconning Sarah Jane’s relationship with the Doctor because of course he’s so magnificent and hot and sexy and every woman wants him. (I was glad to see Donna shoot the Doctor down when he suggested such a dynamic with her - making her my favorite companion!) Another thing about Davies and the Tenth Doctor - RTD was too full of himself and all the wonderful new characters he created for this show that he had to hit us over the head with them for the Doctor’s completely mawkish regeneration.
And whatever RTD felt for the Doctor Moffat felt towards Clara, for some reason, making her the Doctor’s mommy, having the Doctor be so enamored with her instead of the other way around, having her erase his memory, having her cross his timeline, and JFC undoing her death by stopping her heart from beating, seriously, that makes about as much sense as saying the moon is a giant egg - oh wait. Bill was a much more satisfactory companion.
I have enjoyed NuWho, don’t get me wrong, but these are such obvious missteps they really and truly frustrate me.
The Seeker
Member: Rank 6
Rereading the above post it seems a little incoherent, but my iPad kept freezing up and reloading the page. I am so thankful this website saves posts you’ve started. But yes undoing all the deaths and goodbyes (in the most hackneyed ways possible) do get to me. From what I’ve seen of Classic Who, it was less sentimental and more ballsy than its current incarnation.