divemaster13
Member: Rank 4
I agree. The Banquet is Shakespeare done right. Wuxia style! I have to watch this again soon.
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Recently Seen, Part 32 (October 2019)
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clayton-12
Member: Rank 4
I’m gonna disagree with this statement.
Jumping ten years forward to 2016 and beyond, I think My Heart Leaps Up, Old Stone, The Looming Storm, Wrath of Silence and Angels Wear White were all excellent, while I Am Not Madame Bovary, Love Education, and The Crossing were very good. Mainstream entries like The Mermaid, How Long Will I Love U, The Island and Dying to Survive were all solid, even if they’re not really the type of thing that rocks my boat.
I suspect that my list would be longer if I had seen more films.
If anything, I think the quality of mainland China’s output is on an upswing.
plsletitrain
Member: Rank 5
My statement would be good contender for most ignorant statement made on the net but what the heck: The only movies I ever appreciated from China is wuxia/martial-arts related.
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sitenoise
Member: Rank 5
yes,
Here's my thing. Back in the aughts, there was a generation of young talented actresses doing independent films. the bingbings, Zhang Jingchu, Zhou Xun, Gao Yuanyuan, Gong Beibi, you could even say Zhao Wei and Kwai Lunmei. Just look at their filmographies and zero in on the year The Banquet was made. Look at what they were all doing that year, give or take a couple few years on either side. Just what those actresses alone were doing around then is way more films than you could conjure up as cool good films from this past decade.
Where is this decade's generation of young talent making good films? I don't think one exists, certainly not since Xi Jinping took office.
Remember when I was stubbornly defending Chinese cinema against the onslaught of attacks from our dearly departed green frog man? I wouldn't do that today. I still think that when China gets it right, it's some of the best stuff out there. Like the films you named. But those kind of films seem so rare any more. Like one or two at most per year.
Here's my 4/5 stars or better film list from the year of The Banquet alone:
The Banquet
Curse of the Golden Flower
Diary
Exiled
My Name Is Fame
Re-cycle
The Road
Silk
Summer Palace
God Damn!
The next year was even better. But for every single year of the first decade of the new century a Top Ten was super easy, enjoyable, and fun to do --easier than a Top Ten of this miserable decade would be :)
BuX
Member: Rank 1
Not seen this one, Singaporean films are not at all that common. My favorite film from Asia is the Singaporen film, 15 by Royston Tan.
clayton-12
Member: Rank 4
For such a small little nation (and especially for one that is often associated with nothing more exciting than accounting), Singapore actually has quite a vibrant little film industry. If you ever get a chance to see a subtitled version of the anthology film 7 Letters, check out the first segment by Eric Khoo - it's a beautiful love letter to the roots of the Singaporean film industry.
Freaking brutal
clayton-12
Member: Rank 4
Allow me to agree with you, and disagree, and offer a point of clarification.
When I commented about China, I really meant to refer to mainland China, rather than the combined Mainland/Hong Kong/Taiwan industries. I felt a little cheeky slipping Old Stone into my list, but managed to assuage the guilt by deliberating not mentioning Shunji Iwai's Last Letter.
If I look at your list for 2006, if the HK and Taiwan films are excluded, there's only 4 films left (although I would have described Curse of the Golden Flower as a chore rather than a film lol). I might be way off the mark here, but I wonder if you looked back over the first decade and made a yearly Top Ten for mainland films, you would find it a lot more difficult - in other words, I wonder if the apparent decline in Chinese cinema has more to do with a decline in (particularly) the Hong Kong industry than what is happening on the mainland. I'd love to see your top tens for the full decade btw.
Having said that, in an effort to savagely prove you wrong I went back and looked at films that I would consider excellent from 2010 onwards, and struggled to honestly add more than two extra titles to my list.
But as for the question "Where is this decade's generation of young talent making good films?", I'll make the observation that three of the five films at the top of my list were made by first time directors, the other two are sophomore efforts.
I'm not hugely prolific with the number of films I see, so when I've lately been getting quite a good hit rate with the new mainland Chinese films I see, and the best ones seem to be coming from filmmakers at the beginning of their careers, I do get the impression of an upswing.
sitenoise
Member: Rank 5
I'm delighted by this observation. I was talking about actors, though, more than directors. It's troubling to me, and a sign of the way I see the times, that the group of young actresses that were doing good stuff in the aughts all jumped the shark by deacade's end (or soon there after) and no new group has emerged to replace them. I don't think I could name a single Chinese actress of the 10s who's comparable to the aught's group I mentioned.
Having said that, let me add a few films to your list, and I'll give 2010 to your team (still mainland+, for now):
2010 - One Day … aka You yi tian
2010 - Aftershock … aka Tangshan Dadizheng
2010 - Reign of Assassins … aka Jianyu
2010 - Let the Bullets Fly
2011 - The Woman Knight of Mirror Lake … aka Jing Xiong Nu Xia Qiu Jin
2011 - The Flying Swords of Dragon Gate … aka Long men fei jia
2012 - Drug War … aka Du zhan
2012 - Here, Then … aka Ci chu yu bi chu
2012 - Beijing Blues
2014 - Guilty
2014 - Blind Massage … aka Tui na
2014 - Black Coal, Thin Ice … aka Bai ri yan huo
2016 - The Assassin … aka Nie yin niang
2018 - An Elephant Sitting Still … aka Da xiang xi di er zuo
Bleaker by the minute/year!
As for mainland vs mainland plus, that's an interesting point. I don't generally like Hong Kong films so I was surprised when you point out their prevalence on the list. Taiwan is a thing of its own. I wish we could agree on some spongy notion of what "mainland sensibility' is so that OLD STONE surely gets included. I think many/most of the wuxia stuff is technically Hong Kong, and LUST, CAUTION might be technically France for all I know. THE ASSASSIN, technically Taiwan. But they are feel mainlandy to me. Even a very Hong Kong film like LOST IN TIME seems more mainland in sensibility than Hong Kongy.
Some wise man (maybe it was me, lol) said the best Chinese films are ABOUT China. That's the main(land) sensibility I'm interested in. I want to enjoy more "Chinese" films. I'll say it again: When they get it right it's some of the best stuff EVAR!
For as much as I needle and rib both China and Korea for how much their quality has dropped, and still blindly think Japan hasn't succumbed to the trend, Japan's jaw-dropping stuff isn't even in the same ballpark as the best from China and Korea. And/but, I'm sort of happy about that. I could name a very few monsters from Japan, like LOVE EXPOSURE or EUREKA, and say I'd take them to my desert island over BLACK COAL, THIN ICE or THE BANQUET (or M and CAFE NOIR from Korea) but as far as FILM making goes, I dunno.
Actually, after I typed that I realize I would take M and CAFE NOIR to my desert island over LOVE EXPOSURE and EUREKA. Maybe not.
Okay, so mainland films from the aughts aren't as good or plentiful as I remember them (but the actresses were way better) and mainlandy films from the 10s are better and more plentiful than I thought (and hopefully increasing). And/so/but rather than rake out top tens from the aughts (because that would be too much work), here's my whoop-dee-doopers from the decades side by side, and I'm sticking with mainland+ (although I will try to exclude some obvious transgressions and Kar Wai Wong). A Top Ten from each year would include films I enjoyed but might not consider amazo-films.
| 2000 - Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon … aka Wo hu cang long 2000 - The Road Home … aka Wo de fu qin mu qin 2000 - Suzhou River … aka Suzhou he 2000 - Happy Times … aka Xingfu shiguang 2001 - Bus 44 … aka Che si shi si 2001 - Millennium Mambo … aka Qianxi manbo 2001 - What Time Is It There? … aka Ni na bian ji dian 2002 - Hero … aka Ying xiong 2002 - Blue Gate Crossing … aka Lanse da men 2002 - Where Have All the Flowers Gone … aka Na shi hua kai 2002 - Spring Subway … aka Kaiwang chuntian de ditie 2002 - Balzac and the Little Chinese Seamstress … aka Xiao cai feng 2003 - Blind Shaft … aka Mang jing 2003 - I Love You … aka Wo ai ni 2003 - Green Tea … aka Lü cha 2003 - Lost in Time … aka Mong bat liu 2004 - Butterfly … aka Hu die 2004 - Koma … aka Jiu ming 2004 - The Passage … aka Jing Guo 2005 - Blue Cha Cha … aka Shen hai 2005 - Stolen Life … aka Sheng si jie 2005 - Peacock … aka Kong que 2005 - Shanghai Dreams … aka Qing hong 2005 - Waiting Alone … aka Du zi deng dai 2006 - The Banquet … aka Ye yan 2006 - Curse of the Golden Flower 2006 - Diary … aka Mon seung 2006 - Re-cycle … aka Gwai wik 2006 - Summer Palace … aka Yihe yuan 2006 - The Road … aka Fang xiang zhi lu 2007 - Blind Mountain … aka Mang shan 2007 - In Love We Trust … aka Zuo you 2007 - Lost In Beijing … aka Ping guo 2007 - Lust, Caution … aka Se, jie 2007 - The Most Distant Course … aka Zui yao yuan de ju li 2007 - Night Train … aka Ye che 2007 - The Longest Night in Shanghai … aka Yoru no shanghai 2007 - The Sun Also Rises … aka Tai yang zhao chang sheng qi 2008 - Lost Indulgence … aka Mi guo 2008 - Painted Skin … aka Wa pei 2008 - Red Cliff … aka Chi bi 2008 - Red River … aka Hong he 2008 - The Equation of Love and Death … aka Li mi de cai xiang 2009 - Last Train Home … aka Gui tu lie che 2009 - The Message … aka Feng sheng 2009 - Night and Fog … aka Tin shui wai dik ye yu mo 2009 - Red Cliff: Part II … aka Chi bi xia: Jue zhan tian xia 2009 - City of Life and Death … aka Nanjing! Nanjing! 2009 - Memory of Love 2009 - Hear Me 2009 - Bodyguards and Assassins … aka Shi yue wei cheng | 2010 - One Day … aka You yi tian 2010 - Aftershock … aka Tangshan Dadizheng 2010 - Reign of Assassins … aka Jianyu 2010 - Merry-Go-Round … aka Dong fung po 2010 - Let the Bullets Fly 2011 - Dragon … aka Wu xia 2011 - The Sorcerer and the White Snake 2011 - The Woman Knight of Mirror Lake 2011 - Love is Not Blind … aka Shi Lian 33 Tian 2011 - The Flying Swords of Dragon Gate … aka Long men fei jia 2012 - Painted Skin: The Resurrection … aka Hua Pi 2 2012 - Here, Then … aka Ci chu yu bi chu 2012 - Beijing Blues 2014 - Guilty 2014 - Blind Massage … aka Tui na 2014 - Black Coal, Thin Ice … aka Bai ri yan huo 2016 - The Assassin … aka Nie yin niang 2016 - Old Stone … aka Lao shi 2016 - I Am Not Madame Bovary 2017 - The Looming Storm … aka Bao xue jiang zhi 2018 - An Elephant Sitting Still … aka Da xiang xi di er zuo |
The Seeker
Member: Rank 6
I saw this film a few days ago and I have to say, it's one of the few films in recent history I liked enough to watch again. I was looking at the Parasite page on TV Tropes and they say Mrs. Park is a drug addict. She does cry out "Buy me drugs!" during sex and at the beginning of the film was in some stupor and had to be woken up – do you think they misinterpreted or are they right?
divemaster13
Member: Rank 4
Ooooooh, I honestly don't remember enough of that detail to answer your question. But the "rich bored housewife" relying on Valium or something would not surprise me.
clayton-12
Member: Rank 4
Sorry for letting this one get stale, I've been away - but thanks heaps for your lists. If anything, I think that whether or not the number of good Chinese films has decreased, there's so many good ones that I haven't seen that it'll take a long long while before I'm scratching in the dirt trying to turn up something worthwhile to watch. Contentment comes easier to the ignorant!
As for the actresses, can I offer up some names?
Tan Zhou is always great - mostly in supporting roles, but supporting roles in great movies.
If Vicky Chen (aka Wen Qi) continues the way she's going, she'll match any of the group you hold a torch for (and she'll only be 26 when she jumps the shark at the end of the next decade).
I had high hopes for Sun Yihan; she was great in her first film, but since then only seems to appear in things destined to be panned.
Hmm … Huang Yao? JIngwen E? Too early to tell, but let's see in a few years time.