Spoilers Odishon (1999)

[divemaster13]

I think it's a matter of trust. When I give over 2 hours of my time, there is a certain amount of trust I give over to the director. I trust that for a mystery, the "reveal" will be such that the clues are presented somehow leading up to the conclusion. Say you have a Victorian era drawing room murder whodunit. You watch the whole movie, picking at the clues and the red herrings and...and...and it was...aliens! WTF? Or say, there's a melodrama kid dying of cancer movie. You get to know the kid, his family--the director builds an emotional bond. Yes, you expect that he will either triumph or die at the end. Fair enough. What would not be fair is if the final scene the doctor comes in and bashes the kid's head in with a hammer and roll credits. Yes, that would be shocking for shock value and a huge WTF.

That's just the type of impression I got from Audition. In my opinion, Miike did not set up or justify the violence. I think that if the movie were told in a more straightforward way, without all the jumping around and circling back (was it a dream? was it a fantasy? was Shigeharu remembering? was he projecting? how did he see things that weren't there?); AND if I got a more solid sense of Asami's...psychological profile(?) then maybe I would cut it more slack. As it is, I'm not sure what to believe as far as her abuse goes. For example, in one scene the ballet teacher is coming after her as an 8-year-old, and another flashback he's coming after her as an adult.

My take on the film is here you have this lonely guy. Meets a seemingly sweet girl. Yes, she has some abuse issues, but he seems understanding and they hit it off. The next day she kills his dog, drugs him, slicey/dicey, and oh, I'll kill the son as well. WT everlasting F.

I expect the director to show me why Shigeharu deserves this fate. He wasn't one of her abusers. He was the only one nice to her! We see a scene that implied he had some sort of sexual encounter with the homely office worker, but did he? I think the scene could be interpreted either way. And wasn't there a scene that implied one of his previous sexual partners was a schoolgirl? I'm not sure. Maybe he's a sick bastard and deserves a terrible fate. If that were the case, and Miike built the support for that, I'd probably cheer along with kirikirikirikirikiri and hope she went for his balls when she got finished with his feet.

I guess there was just so much "I'm not sure" / "what did that mean?" / "was this part real and that part fantasy and this other part dream; or was THIS part real, and THAT part fantasy, and that OTHER part dream" to earn my trust. You build up my trust and I can take just about anything you throw at me. If it comes across as a self-indulgent exercise of "I'm gonna throw this at you and dare you to watch," and my primary reaction when the credits are rolling is WTF?...then count me out.

 

[clayton-12]

^ You've articulated this really well, @divemaster13, and I think I completely understand where you're coming from. It certainly doesn't change my view of how good the film was, but then again I did feel that the violence of the end had been set up by what had proceeded, so it's inevitable that we're gonna respond to it on different levels.

 

[sitenoise]

My take on the film is here you have this lonely guy. Meets a seemingly sweet girl. Yes, she has some abuse issues, but he seems understanding and they hit it off. The next day she kills his dog, drugs him, slicey/dicey, and oh, I'll kill the son as well. WT everlasting F.

I'm not sure she killed or was going to kill the son. Why wouldn't she come at him with a meat cleaver if that's what she wanted. But anyway, I think you have to presume a deconstruction of the film if you want a reason "why Shigeharu deserves this fate". But there's no reason to do that. Bad things happen to good people all the time.

It was the smile, the best shot of the film, that tells us that.

They tell me that God is above
and that he wants to be loved
Just like anybody
Oh, such bad luck
I wanna be loved too.

 

[sitenoise]

Hey, but wait a minute. The son was supposed to be staying (overnight?) with his girlfriend (the school girl involved in the BJ marathon, @divemaster13), but she got sick and they called an ambulance so he comes home. I remember when I was watching that part I assumed Asami had something to do with it, but now I can't parse her motivation, if that were the case.

I just went and looked at that part and noticed a couple goofs? When the son comes home and dad is crawling he no longer has any needles in his stomach. It's fresh as a daisy. I know there was that awesome scene where Asami just scootched across them to get to the eye treatment, but there would surely have been some blood or something.

And I know we are also in some time-travel moment there or something, but the first time they show Asami emerge from the kitchen with the mace, she makes a pretty solid hit with it, albeit to the back of his head, but then time travel, dream, whatever, and then they show her emerge again and the son dodges the shot.

What a crappy movie.

Say you have a Victorian era drawing room murder whodunit. You watch the whole movie, picking at the clues and the red herrings and...and...and it was...aliens! WTF?

This sort of WTF can be done well. See: Let Me Eat Your Pancreas. And in a sort kinda not quite similar way, a film you must get on your watchlist: My Ordinary Love Story.

 

[divemaster13]

I'm not sure she killed or was going to kill the son. Why wouldn't she come at him with a meat cleaver if that's what she wanted.

I certainly don't have THE answer to this. (And I could attach "I'm not sure" to just about every concept of this movie, which is much of my frustration with it). I assumed it was some sort of knock-out spray, like chloro or something that would incapacitate him. Once he was incapacitated? Don't know.

Bad things happen to good people all the time.

I agree. And I generally don't find movies with that as the overall (or major) premise the least bit entertaining. Recall that I hated Bad Guy with a passion greater than any dislike I have for Audition, for that very reason. That's just the way I roll.

It was the smile, the best shot of the film, that tells us that.

I did like that shot. Almost as good as the "jump scene" for effectiveness. Although the whole "gork in the bag" aspect of the move left me cold.

 

[divemaster13]

Hey, but wait a minute. The son was supposed to be staying (overnight?) with his girlfriend (the school girl involved in the BJ marathon, @divemaster13), but she got sick and they called an ambulance so he comes home. I remember when I was watching that part I assumed Asami had something to do with it, but now I can't parse her motivation, if that were the case.

I never assumed Asami had anything to do with the son being home unexpectedly. I just figured that when she goes DEFCON-kirikirikirikirikiri that any male within her sphere gets the needle and wire treatment. Just because.

This sort of WTF can be done well. See: Let Me Eat Your Pancreas. And in a sort kinda not quite similar way, a film you must get on your watchlist: My Ordinary Love Story.

Note to self: Movies to avoid at all costs = Let Me Eat Your Pancreas and My Ordinary Love Story. LOL. (Kidding with you a bit here: I can see myself enjoying quirky or sweet WTF. Just not sadistic or lazy/stupid WTF.)

 

[plsletitrain]

^ You've articulated this really well, @divemaster13, and I think I completely understand where you're coming from.

I second this. Thanks for shedding more light @divemaster13. Its interesting to see each other's perspectives.

Personally, I like it when the director plays with my trust. I like playing cat-and-mouse with him. I try to catch him, he deflects, I take out my magnifying glass, he deflects again, and in the end.....he caught me. lol. I like it when I feel so clever "Hey you can't fool me" type only to be proven that the director outsmarted me in the end. He conned me! lol. I like it when I'm also caught off guard, when I thought I had him figured and read and fathomed but I didn't. Expect the film to be a top contender in my top whatever list then. He gets bonus points if

Say you have a Victorian era drawing room murder whodunit. You watch the whole movie, picking at the clues and the red herrings and...and...and it was...aliens! WTF? Or say, there's a melodrama kid dying of cancer movie. You get to know the kid, his family--the director builds an emotional bond. Yes, you expect that he will either triumph or die at the end. Fair enough. What would not be fair is if the final scene the doctor comes in and bashes the kid's head in with a hammer and roll credits.

I admit I tend to over analyze, often putting color when there's none instead of just letting myself drown in the watching experience and enjoy the film overall. This is one area I have to improve on.

I second @sitenoise's recommendations. :)