Controversial Does God Exist?

[Hux]

Hilarious. Sorry, but did you or did you not just say...

you've pretty much single-handedly given a vivid demonstration of that exact sticking-point in my earlier posts in which I opined that hell hath no fury like a True Believer who finds he's not as successful at foisting off his True Beliefs (whatever they may be) to all and sundry as he might wish

Apparently I'm putting words in your mouth again.

LOL.

Please tell me how I've massively taken you out of context again and you definitely didn't just equate my position that rejects a belief with that of a hard line believer.

 

[Amyghost]

Hilarious. Sorry, but did you or did you not just say...



Apparently I'm putting words in your mouth again.

LOL.

Please tell me how I've taken you out of context again.

Cherry pick much? I hope you're wearing your safety harness if so, because that may be the single most lame example of it I've yet encountered. I use the term True Believer (disdainfully) to dismiss anyone, atheist or religionist, who so honestly believes they've attained the mountaintop that their reasoning powers wither away in that thin and rarefied air. As such, I definitely lump you into the True Believer Herd, Militant Atheist Division; if you but knew it, you'd get on a treat with the likes of Pat Robertson and Company, who belong in the TB Division labeled 'God is the only answer to everything'. All that divides you is a minor theological point--the sense of absolute certainty on your chosen stances binds you with far greater ties of commonality than you dare allow yourself to think.

Here it is Hux-- plain bald statement of what I've only said about eighty times thus far:

"When it comes to a debate regarding the existence or non-existence of God, I, personally, think there can be no final and ultimate answer, as there is no hard evidence either way."

That's it, finito, end of comment. I don't think the existence of god can be proven or disproven because there is no evidence either way. Put another way, for lack of evidence, I think no one can say for certainty that there is or isn't a god. Just for variety's sake, let me phrase that statement to say god may or may not exist, there thus far has been no hard evidence to support either view. I hope you get I'm being ironic. Everything that you've interlarded into that baseline statement is simply that--your interlardings--not my words. You want to make a giant out of a windmill and then tilt with it, that's great--as long as you bear in mind the fact that Don Quixote got bopped out of the saddle for his pains, and not even Sancho Panza believed that the phantasm existed objectively outside of the good Don's imagination.

Put simply: you've taken a simple declaration and appended to it all manner of bells and whistles it never sported, and then wish to park it in the driveway with the claim that you've "quoted me accurately". At this juncture, I see a rosy future ahead of you as Sean Spicer's understudy, or a Fox News journalist, but none at all as a credible opponent capable of debating his adversary's actual words as opposed to the straw-man word construct he's decided to attribute to that opponent. Stick to my actual statement as opposed to the tarted-up version you're touting as mine, and we'll talk.

 

[Hux]

Cherry pick much?

From taking you out of context to cherry picking. I guess that's progress of a sort.

Here it is Hux-- plain bald statement of what I've only said about eighty times thus far:

"When it comes to a debate regarding the existence or non-existence of God, I, personally, think there can be no final and ultimate answer, as there is no hard evidence either way."

Then, as I've stated from the beginning, you must inevitably apply that same logic to the gravity dragon who lives at the centre of the earth, the spaghetti monster who created the universe and Jeffrey, the magic midget who resides in your devil's dumplings factory.

Put another way, for lack of evidence, I think no one can say for certainty that there is or isn't a god. Just for variety's sake, let me phrase that statement to say god may or may not exist, there thus far has been no hard evidence to support either view.

And again, I repeat, you must apply that logic to Leprechauns, fairies, a drunk pigeon in Catalonia who secretly controls your legs, a benevolent invisible monkey who exists but also doesn't exist and has never existed but might exist if you dance the tango at approximately 7:15pm on the hot, frothy shores of Aberdeen as the seas slurps four times at your feet whilst whispering the secrets to eternity.

And yet... and yet, somehow I doubt that you do apply that same logic to those things.

I suspect you dismiss them as the ludicrous, slow-witted warblings of fools and maniacs, and what's more, I suspect you do this... with certainty.

 

[Amyghost]

From taking you out of context to cherry picking. I guess that's progress of a sort.



Then, as I've stated from the beginning, you must inevitably apply that same logic to the gravity dragon who lives at the centre of the earth, the spaghetti monster who created the universe and Jeffrey, the magic midget who resides in your devil's dumplings factory.



And again, I repeat, you must apply that logic to Leprechauns, fairies, a drunk pigeon in Catalonia who secretly controls your legs, a benevolent invisible monkey who exists but also doesn't exist and has never existed but might exist if you dance the tango at approximately 7:15pm on the hot, frothy shores of Aberdeen as the seas slurps four times at your feet whilst whispering the secrets to eternity.

And yet... and yet, somehow I doubt that you do apply that same logic to those things.

I suspect you dismiss them as the ludicrous, slow-witted warblings of fools and maniacs, and what's more, I suspect you do this... with certainty.

Yes I do. And no, the fact that I can't express certainty as to the existence of 'god' one way or the other does not equate to credulous belief in any of the above phenomena, nor their spawn thereof. As I said, I can live with not knowing absolutely. You can't. The whole issue boils down to something no more complex or lofty than this at the end of the day. So let's agree to disagree, shake hands, and be done with it. Personally, I'd find a rousing discussion as to who actually authored the works of Shakespeare to be of more merit, intellectual content, and plain good laughs myself .

 

[Hux]

Yes I do. And no, the fact that I can't express certainty as to the existence of 'god' one way or the other does not equate to credulous belief in any of the above phenomena, nor their spawn thereof.

Yes, it does. If you cannot express certainty about the Catalonian pigeon then frankly, you cannot express certainty about anything.

Everything is a dream. Everything is unknowable. Everything is unprovable. We're riding on the back of a turtle through toon town and we're all made of cheese. Nothing can be certain.

Well, how darling. Then I suggest you stay away from cliffs lest the Catalonian pigeon should decide to maliciously steer you towards the edge.

As I said, I can live with not knowing absolutely. You can't.

I can't live with not knowing? We all live everyday with not knowing. The difference is some of us don't fill the gaps in our knowledge with... well, it might all just be a dream. You never know.

 

[croft_alice]

If knowledge is power and power corrups,how the human kind ever survives?

 

[Amyghost]

Yes, it does. If you cannot express certainty about the Catalonian pigeon then frankly, you cannot express certainty about anything.

Everything is a dream. Everything is unknowable. Everything is unprovable. We're riding on the back of a turtle through toon town and we're all made of cheese. Nothing can be certain.

Well, how darling. Then I suggest you stay away from cliffs lest the Catalonian pigeon should decide to maliciously steer you towards the edge.



I can't live with not knowing? We all live everyday with not knowing. The difference is some of us don't fill the gaps in our knowledge with... well, it might all just be a dream. You never know.

It may very well all be a dream. I imagine you're au courant with some of the speculation (including amongst the scientifically-minded) that our reality may be just one big virtual reality setup created by the usual...intelligences elsewhere? If that's true, just imagine the laughs they must be getting out of this converation.

Elon Musk, by the by, is apparently passionately committed to that idea:
http://mashable.com/2016/06/02/elon-musk-right-virtual-reality/

 

[Hux]

And until the smallest iota of evidence arrives to support that, I will dismiss it (with certainty) as inconsequential navel gazing philosophy of the best kind. The scientific method cannot have any meaning unless we first accept that some things must be true. If you accept that premise then God... vanishes.

It amazes me how many people happily accept the scientific method as our best technique for understanding our reality but then utterly abandon it when they want to believe something.

 

[chainsaw_metal1]

Everybody needs something to believe in. I believe I'll have another beer.

 

[croft_alice]

Everybody needs something to believe in. I believe I'll have another beer.

So am i

 

[ant-mac]

Everybody needs something to believe in. I believe I'll have another beer.

I believe I'll put the kettle on - and maybe pants as well.

 

[Amyghost]

And until the smallest iota of evidence arrives to support that, I will dismiss it (with certainty) as inconsequential navel gazing philosophy of the best kind. The scientific method cannot have any meaning unless we first accept that some things must be true. If you accept that premise then God... vanishes.

It amazes me how many people happily accept the scientific method as our best technique for understanding our reality but then utterly abandon it when they want to believe something.

Lighten up, Hux--I posted that for shits and giggles, just to show how even the most 'scientifically' minded can harbor at least one bee in their bonnet, as many of them have and do.

Personally, I think the idea is completely ludicrous, ranking right up alongside the 'God snapped his fingers and created everything' idea.

 

[Amyghost]

I believe I'll put the kettle on - and maybe pants as well.

I like Billy Shakes' idea about there being 'more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy'. Is that scientific method? Hell no, and I have no desire to conflate poetry with scientific methodology either.

 

[Hux]

Lighten up, Hux--I posted that for shits and giggles, just to show how even the most 'scientifically' minded can harbor at least one bee in their bonnet, as many of them have and do.

Personally, I think the idea is completely ludicrous, ranking right up alongside the 'God snapped his fingers and created everything' idea.

Calm down, dear. You're staring to sound stressed and upset again.

 

[Amyghost]

Calm down, dear. You're staring to sound stressed and upset again.

Is there anyone who doesn't sound that way to you? Must make you one hella hard guy to joke around with. As a number of your postings around the place would seem to indicate.

Peace out, dude, as the kool kids say. Life is too short to go through it with clenched hair.

 

[Hux]

Is there anyone who doesn't sound that way to you? Must make you one hella hard guy to joke around with. As a number of your postings around the place would seem to indicate.

Peace out, dude, as the kool kids say. Life is too short to go through it with clenched hair.

And which postings would they be again? Why so upset?

Life's too short to go through it with clenched buttocks, you know.

 

[Amyghost]

And which postings would they be again? Why so upset?

Life's too short to go through it with clenched buttocks, you know.

Try the Bond 25: News & Speculation thread for one, where you argued with several regulars including ant-mac, and then took on DeJohnnie , who gave you repeated warnings before you dropped the heavy weather over calling any and all a 'racist' who didn't agree with the notion that Idris Elba could/should play Bond. Talk about clenched buttocks, you had a one man decathlon of flexed gluteii going on there.

So golly, yes Hux. You've caught me out. I'm about to go down that secret Seconal stash I've kept in hiding all these years for the moment when my innards would have been so torn by the keen rapierlike slashings of that One True Internet Adversary that I could not possibly survive the shame and humiliation, and knew that dignity would demand I end it once and for all. Which means I guess that this ends our discussion, showing that even death can have its upside.

 

[Hux]

Try the Bond 25: News & Speculation thread for one, where you argued with several regulars including ant-mac, and then took on DeJohnnie , who gave you repeated warnings before you dropped the heavy weather over calling any and all a 'racist' who didn't agree with the notion that Idris Elba could/should play Bond. Talk about clenched buttocks, you had a one man decathlon of flexed gluteii going on there.

So golly, yes Hux. You've caught me out. I'm about to go down that secret Seconal stash I've kept in hiding all these years for the moment when my innards would have been so torn by the keen rapierlike slashings of that One True Internet Adversary that I could not possibly survive the shame and humiliation, and knew that dignity would demand I end it once and for all. Which means I guess that this ends our discussion, showing that even death can have its upside.

You mean where he asserted that a black man couldn't play Bond and I pointed out that... yup, he totally can. You disagree? You think a black man can't play a fictional character? Hmmm, I'm starting to see why you and he might have so much in common. Interesting.

God and white people for the win, huh?

You also mentioned other examples. What would they be? And remember... don't get to upset.

 

[Janine The Barefoot]

Hux, at this point the only 'interesting' thing here is observing someone who's become so caught up in their own logical fallacies that they've made themselves impervious to any type of reasonable response.

Amy, I admire your calm, logical responses to a man who has laughed off several warnings by @ant-mac, @DeJoHnNiE and @Alex Vojacek but I ,personally, am enormously offended by the comment about some kind of "otherworldly" being living in your anus. I have observed this person ignore any number of interventions by staff that he control his mouth and his attitude and have seen no intention on his part to do any of those things much less take them seriously.

Although I am highly reluctant to report him for this continued behavior, I am also unwilling to let it go by as if it makes no difference whatsoever. It makes a difference to me. I am tired of it beyond belief and have finally come to the conclusion that his personal attacks on members of this site constitutes the "Troll-Like" behavior that we all agreed had and has no place on this site. In point of fact, we all agreed to a code of conduct when we joined this site prohibiting exactly this kind of behavior and if you wish to continue with him, dealing rationally with what is clearly irrational behavior, I will let it go. But this is most decidedly not what the rest of us come here for and I am sick to death of watching it continue unabated.

I accept that this is a "controversial" thread but that in no way makes it open for personal attacks and non-stop vitriol directed at anyone who disagrees with his POV or challenges his right to make those attacks. So I will leave it up to you as you are largely the person he has chosen to direct those attacks at. But once again, I have taken some of those attacks personally myself and will report him for them unless you choose to ask me to just let it be. I leave you this choice because you have remained the voice of reason, no one but AM has called him on them in this particular thread and therefore you have earned the right to make the decision for yourself.

@ant-mac, by no means does any of this mean that I have any less respect for your authority nor do I believe that you have dealt with him in any less of a rational fashion. But given that he won't even listen to you of all people, I'll report him if you have no objections either. It is not my goal to override your decisions in this matter; more that I think adding more weight to the behavior at hand may help to serve our agreement that his behavior is unacceptable to us all and he seems to think that he is beyond all of it.

This is, without question, the most awful and painful post I have made on this site. But I just cannot continue going on as if his behavior doesn't matter or, that if we ignore it long enough, it will simply go away. So forgive me one and all. But we, in this country, are faced with a man in office who operates in much the same fashion and as far as I'm concerned, no one is above the law. Even when it is only the law as we have agreed to on this site. If the group in question believes it best, I will remove this post (or asked for it to be removed) but in the meantime, I am tired of observing this behavior continue ad nauseam without feeling the need to comment on my own beliefs insofar as this is all concerned.

Now, please feel free to continue your conversation uninterrupted.
It's just another observation by The Wacky Norwegian Woman!

 

[Hux]

I have observed this person ignore any number of interventions by staff that he control his mouth and his attitude and have seen no intention on his part to do any of those things much less take them seriously.

Um no, you haven't. You've seen the Bond one and this one (which was baloney and the mod knows it). I have consistently ridiculed the post, not the poster.

Although I am highly reluctant to report him for this continued behavior, I am also unwilling to let it go by as if it makes no difference whatsoever. It makes a difference to me. I am tired of it beyond belief and have finally come to the conclusion that his personal attacks on members of this site constitutes the "Troll-Like" behavior that we all agreed had and has no place on this site.

Um nope. Continued behaviour? Personal attacks. What on earth are you talking about?

I accept that this is a "controversial" thread but that in no way makes it open for personal attacks

Demonstrate one personal attack on this thread please, liar.

I have taken some of those attacks personally myself and will report him for them unless you choose to ask me to just let it be.

Which attacks would these be, liar?

This is, without question, the most awful and painful post I have made on this site. But I just cannot continue going on as if his behavior doesn't matter or, that if we ignore it long enough, it will simply go away.

The only person I have seen on this forum whose behaviour is demonstrably trollish and unpleasant is... well, why don't you click on the negative ratings and see for yourself. Hint: He's the one that rushed like a bat out of hell to like your gibberish post.