Review World Enough and Time / The Doctor Falls (2017)

Doctor Omega

Member: Rank 10
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Doctor Omega

Member: Rank 10
I love the ending of World Enough and Time.

But will it be downhill, in storytelling terms, from here? :emoji_confused:

Or a powerful finale?:emoji_confused:
 

chainsaw_metal1

Member: Rank 8
I love the ending of World Enough and Time.
And that was about it. It seemed like it was all filler to lead up to the big reveal at the end (some good moments), but that ending was fantastic! Now I'm all sorts of excited for the finale.

And @ant-mac should be as pleased as we were at the mention of
Venusian Aikido!
It made for a funny moment where I yelped in excitement, my wife asked from the other room what happened, and I explained, and she gave me the "you're such a nerd, I can't believe I ever slept with you" look. Which I get pretty often.
 

Gavin

Member: Rank 6
VIP
I haven't been overly excited by the episodes so far this series but this one really kept me enthralled all the way through. First time all year I've finished an episode and felt like I can't wait to see more.
 

Doctor Omega

Member: Rank 10
I felt that the Bill at the other end of the ship parts had a genuinely eerie atmosphere that the programme has been missing since, well, since the the classic show! Not even the weaker bits of dialogue and silliness about Doctor Who and gender changing could dissipate that eerie atmosphere.

I will be gobsmacked it they do not drop the ball next week though, undoing all of the good work that led to that ending.

I suspect that....


Bill will be restored to normal.

The history of the show will be remoulded in some way by Moffat, in a JJ Abrams type way; spoiling the way we watch The Tenth Planet. Perhaps the ending of that story will be overwritten and changed into a new timeline or something. Just a suspicion.

Hope I am wrong! :emoji_alien:
 

Gavin

Member: Rank 6
VIP
I agree with your spoiler theory. But watching the episode my main thought when I first realised
that Bill was going to be converted was "I hope they don't undo this". As much as I've loved Bill as a companion it would be incredible to finally see a the Doctor lose a companion and deal with the consequences of not being able to save them.
 

chainsaw_metal1

Member: Rank 8
I think the episode would have held more power for me if we hadn't already known that the Mondasian Cybermen were coming back, or that Simm was returning. Seeing the patients in the hospital all in face masks and using the vocoders were great, but would have had more weight if I hadn't been waiting for it. But after thinking more about the episode, I agree that there was a genuine creepiness to it that has been lacking.

I also see that, in one quick scene in the trailer for the finale, it looks like Bill is lying on the ground. I certainly hope they leave her as is, and not give us the typical "Moffat has to see everyone live" happy ending. The only happy ending I want is the one I pay for at the massage parlor.
 

Gavin

Member: Rank 6
VIP
Yeah unfortunately this was one episode which would have been better going into without any prior knowledge of what was coming. As it was the big reveals were fairly predictable.
 

ant-mac

Member: Rank 9
Talking of predictable, back in April I despaired.....

https://www.imdforums.com/threads/series-10-a-good-or-bad-series-so-far.1074/page-4

to which Ant-Mac replied....

Let's see how funny she thinks it is when she's looking out from behind her very own cloth mask...

Ant-Mac's chilling powers of prophecy strike again! :emoji_alien:
Ah, but do you remember when I mentioned the fact that Muppet might try to slip an extra regeneration scene in before the end?

I was half right about that too... :emoji_wink:
 

AlanH49

Member: Rank 1
I liked the story, but that does not mean that I liked everything in it. Now Bill may not be my favorite Companion (that's still Clara) but I do like her and having her become a Cyberman some would say a fate worse than death is not something I wanted.
Also the time dilation they got it backward time moves more slowly the closer you are to a black hole not faster.
 

chainsaw_metal1

Member: Rank 8
They had it right. The area where the bridge was was going much slower than the back of the ship where the hospital was. And yes, becoming a Cyberman is a fate worse than death, and definitely not something I would have wished upon Bill. But I still hope they leave it, because I'm sick of Moffat and his "let's reverse every major death I write, because life should be lived without consequences, and it takes any meaning and sacrifice out of the character's death".
 

ant-mac

Member: Rank 9
WORLD ENOUGH AND TIME

What a difference a week can make in DOCTOR WHO. Last week I was despairing at the possible historical inaccuracies in THE EATERS OF LIGHT, but this week I’m feeling almost giddy with delight… Or it could just be the result of me taking my meds with a stiff drink. Either way, we finally got an episode of New Who that didn’t make me want to cringe in the corner with embarrassment and shame. In fact, it's the first episode of New Who that I've actually watched more than once - on purpose - since the early days of David Tennant, way back in series two. And I didn’t wait for it to be broadcast on TV - I downloaded it early, from ABC Iview on the internet.

I am also so very, very relieved that they managed to get the Mondasian Cybermen mostly right. Upon closer inspection, there might have been some extremely minor details or differences, but after over fifty years, it was still a mighty fine effort that I fully applaud and appreciate. Thank you. In fact, in some ways, they managed to come across much better now than they did in THE TENTH PLANET. There was something poignantly pathetic and tragic about them. They looked like they should be pitied, not feared. They were not villains - they were victims. I can’t help but feel that Kit Pedler and Gerry Davis would have approved of this new approach.

Meanwhile, John Simm’s disguise didn’t fool me for a single moment, despite the fact that the special effects are so much better than they once were. However, I didn’t entirely mind, because I found the Master’s use of a disguise to be quite a nice nod back to the days of Classic Who. Perhaps it was because of the lack of other notable characters being present. And whilst I was very pleased with the twelfth Doctor’s deft display of skill at Venusian Aikido, it does raise a rather obvious and unfortunate question. Why the hell hasn’t he used it before in his current incarnation? It’s not as if he hasn’t had the opportunity. And why didn’t he use it before Bill got shot?

In general, the episode was exciting, but I must admit that it did seem to be just a little slow and padded in some places, but it was never less than entertaining. The interior of the spaceship was imaginative and interesting and the inclusion of some intelligent and serious scientific concepts was very welcome indeed. The time flow differential between the top and the bottom of the spaceship - due to its closeness to the black hole - was handled very well indeed in my opinion. It’s no secret that DOCTOR WHO has always borrowed or stolen from other sources, but if you’re going to do that, at least borrow or steal decent concepts and ideas.

I have one final question… Will the authors of the original Target novelizations, such as Terrance Dicks and Malcolm Hulke, be given any acknowledgement or credit for the dialogue Missy used when she first emerged from the TARDIS? For a brief moment, I felt sure that she was quoting directly from one of those early novels - possibly THE ZARBI by Bill Strutton. Anyway, just imagine if they started making factually accurate historical serials now and then, as well as including a few more intelligent scientific concepts and ideas in the more science fiction orientated serials? Before you know it, DOCTOR WHO could become an entertaining family TV series with educational properties as well.

What a concept! I doubt the BBC has ever tried to do anything as revolutionary as that before. Oh, wait…
 

chainsaw_metal1

Member: Rank 8
Oh sweet Bacchus!!! The First Doctor meets the Twelfth Doctor!!! Christmas can not come quickly enough!!!

And there was another jab at Donald Trump. Where they actually named him. And if Moffat is reading this, I didn't vote for him. We're not all stupid.

Yes, I'm pissed that Bill still got a happy ending, but dammit, the meeting of the two Doctors at the end just made the entire thing all worth while!
 
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Michael9

Member: Rank 1
An overall interesting episode, in a slower season. It seems like the new showrunner wants to start with a clean slate and they gave him the opportunity not only with a fresh doctor, but also with a new sidekick.

I would like the stories of the next doctor not be so much earth centric. The original Doctor had lots of stories on other planets and places, like in the phase of Tennant. I would like this kind of stories be told. Saving earth once or twice per season gets a little bit old - and limits the story writing. I mean the absolutely sensational "Blink" (which wasn't about Earth) or "Silence of the Library" haunted me for days.
 
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